View source for DearDiary.2003-02-15

Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary

<pre>


You are in "Collective Intelligence:1" ( http://WikiWorld.com Our Collective Intelligence manifest? )


surkumdev1 joined the room
surkumdev1: hey
jimscarver: hi
jimscarver: so your single slit model worked nicely?
surkumdev1: no
surkumdev1: not really
jimscarver: shucks.
surkumdev1: the double slit has issues
surkumdev1: the double slit behaves like particle interaction
jimscarver: im not suprised...
surkumdev1: actually purely many particle interaction
surkumdev1: the wave nature is not found there
surkumdev1: however, making a few changes does do the trick
surkumdev1: i am working on it now
jimscarver: don't think about waves
jimscarver: think about multiple communication channels
jimscarver: possible
surkumdev1: mutiple communication channel?
jimscarver: do the prism experiment first, split the light 50% left and right, join them so they have out of phase path and an in phase path to show how they only take paths that do not cancel.
jimscarver: start basic....
surkumdev1: yes, i am introducing phase into the stuf
jimscarver: think of it as a chain of virtual electron and positrons, each having one two dimensions, manifesting a 3 dimentional position only when they encounter a like particle of opposite spin. no waves are involved.
jimscarver: have you studied semiconductor physics at all?
surkumdev1: yes, i know a little bit of it
surkumdev1: i did VLSI stuff
jimscarver: when i realized that an electron hole and a positron were identical mathimatically, i got it.
surkumdev1: yes
surkumdev1: what did u get?
jimscarver: an elecron changing state leaves a hole that is a virtual positron which in turn leaves a hole that is a virtual electron, .... propogating at the speed of light.
surkumdev1: huh?
jimscarver: +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
jimscarver: the overall operation is an elecron in the sorce, excluding an electron in the target, manifesting space between them, without taking any particular path in 3d space as they are only 2 dimentional.
surkumdev1: jim, turn it into code
surkumdev1: that i can understand
jimscarver: the receiver in the target must see a minus if it is plus, or a plus if it is minus.
jimscarver: the magnitude of the state change must fit in the receiver and be in the direction is "wants" to go.
jimscarver: http://InformationPhysics.com/QET2.htm
surkumdev1: ok
surkumdev1: looking at it
seth''the''homie joined the room
jimscarver: hi
seth''the''homie: yo hi
jimscarver: what are you into?
seth''the''homie: i dont know, just the room's name has attracted my attention
jimscarver: so far, physics and God are the topics
jimscarver: today
seth''the''homie: alright, any highlights?
seth''the''homie: i mean the startpoints
jimscarver: we are objectively trying to facilitate a collective intelligence but are often drawn to the spiritual, or extant collective intelligence, the cosmic conciousness and such.
jimscarver: lots choose a topic, or look at www.WikiWorld.com
jimscarver: quations? ideas? dreams? desires?
jimscarver: my nature is to be an information physicist
seth''the''homie: i'm checking out the site, ideas? well not now, dream and desire was the only, ideal being, i mean i'm in search of anythin that ideal and or infinite
jimscarver: hum, you may have been born in the wrong world
seth''the''homie: yes, i gave myself the same answer recently, actually it has hurted me alot
jimscarver: there is the lamb... http://www.wikiworld.com/wiki/index.php/SevenLamb
jimscarver: is that the sort of thing you mean?
jimscarver: or check out http://www.wikiworld.com/wiki/index.php/WhoIsGod
jimscarver: i believe reality is finite and discrete. such is all the evidence.
jimscarver: http://www.wikiworld.com/wiki/index.php/InformationPhysics
seth''the''homie: wat is reality?
seth''the''homie: i mean wat sense you put in that word?
jimscarver: i got something ideal and infinite random numbers!
jimscarver: random
jimscarver: reality includes the objective physical universe as well as subjective being.
jimscarver: wikiworld is a good place for your quest. please join us====
seth''the''homie: okay, how do you thin, can be human feelings classified onto positive ones and negative ones? + and -
jimscarver: something as they can be put in words on this page they can and are put in chemical-eletrical codes.
jimscarver: it is patterns on all frequencies, the music of life...
seth''the''homie: i understand. but those codes, can we say there are just 2?
jimscarver: all deserve to fullfull thier dreams in so far as it does not infringe on the rights of others, oh well, undeserved left already....
jimscarver: no, there are gazillians of codes
seth''the''homie: just 2 kinds, + and -, positive or negative, we feel joy or sorrow, happyness or sadness (i'm sorry for my language)
jimscarver: change, however, is ultimately binary, change or no change, some integer number of times.
seth''the''homie: you mean it is joy * 5 ?
jimscarver: there can be any finite number of degrees of happiness. pardon my spelling
seth''the''homie: and also any finite number of degrees of sadness, but there is no other special feeling ?
ksenokrates joined the room
jimscarver: so many levels is seems continuous as does the physical world.
seth''the''homie: scare is just on of the strongest feelings but it is negative
jimscarver: every feeling is like a separate song.
darkclou joined the room
seth''the''homie: that's wat i'm talking bout, i belive they are not, there is only 2 kinds + and - why do we give them different names?
ksenokrates: what is intelligencew here?
jimscarver: brb
seth''the''homie: k
ksenokrates: what are you scared of?
darkclou left the room
ksenokrates left the room
[[NotaParticularlyGoodNickname]] (notaparticularlygoodnickname) joined the room
jimscarver: hang on... brb
notaparticularlygoodnickname left the room
seth''the''homie: i'm hangin
jimscarver: you believe there are just 2 kinds?
seth''the''homie: yes
seth''the''homie: can you prove otherwise?
jimscarver: i think so.
seth''the''homie: my beliefs are based on logical chains
seth''the''homie: i call it cold mind
seth''the''homie: and i also believe that the minds is inbetween of feelings between + and - it's 0
seth''the''homie: *mind
seth''the''homie: it is always remain, feelings are vain they discrement from + and increment from - until 0
jimscarver: one sec... on phone, getting off..
seth''the''homie: ok
jman8564 joined the room
jman8564: hello seemingly empty room
seth''the''homie: but not that obviously, hello
jimscarver: sorryt about that, friend called...
seth''the''homie: dont worry
seth''the''homie: it's okay
jman8564: so, what's new with you people
seth''the''homie: i'm patient
jimscarver: seth says there is only 2 emotions, right seth?
seth''the''homie: yep, i think the word feelings is better, more precise
jimscarver: or 2 levels for each emotion.
seth''the''homie: no just to kind of feelings : positive or negative
jimscarver: so happy and sad have no degrees? but what if I am very happy? isn't that a degree of happiness?
seth''the''homie: yes but it is still positive, it is positive * x but not the new feeling
jimscarver: but anger is certtainly different than fear, both are negative.
seth''the''homie: isnt anger is just another fear?
jimscarver: envy and hatered are different
seth''the''homie: but they are just negative it is -
jimscarver: no, fear may turn into anger or hopelessness
jimscarver: or determination
jimscarver: some feeling are not positive or negative necessarily.
seth''the''homie: i'm thinkin
jman8564 left the room
jimscarver: lust. whimsy.
seth''the''homie: it is conditioned by language.. wen you feel something dont try to find it's name.. just.. if you would like to feel it one more time or not?
jimscarver: every song has a different feeling to it,
jimscarver: out behaviour is conditioned by positive and negative only uptimately, but the war in ourselves as to whether it is positive or negative is the uniqueness of the feeling.
seth''the''homie: if you dont know the language how will you explain to somebody that it is envy or fear or "determination?" emotions? but ones uderstand is it positive or negative
seth''the''homie: okay, love? friendship? are they feelings?
jimscarver: they are different, fear is adreanalin rush.
jimscarver: they are actions, but also feelings i expect.
seth''the''homie: so friendship and love is a duty
jimscarver: contentment is caused by seritonan levels, is that what you mean? it is different than fear caused by adrenelin.
jimscarver: not a duty, a way of acting, putting another before self in thought and action.
seth''the''homie: but isnt it a duty? isnt it ideal if you never fail to put another before self? overwhelming own desires and feelings?
jimscarver: sadness is not at all like fear or envy or anger except in that they are negative.
jimscarver: but it is my duty to fight is i get drafted, though I am a pacifist.
seth''the''homie: can you rephrase that please?
jimscarver: if i get called to fight in war that is my duty.
seth''the''homie: love to homeland?
jimscarver: duty implies what you are supposed to do, or feel you must do, not just that you do it because you want to as in friendship and love.
seth''the''homie: exactly, so wat is the basis of love and friendship?
jimscarver: realizing that what is important is greater than self.
seth''the''homie: dont you realize that the safety of your homeland is more important than your own? that's why you pick a gun and go to war
surkumdev1: hi
seth''the''homie: hi
surkumdev1: what up seth
surkumdev1: is seth a russian name?
seth''the''homie: i'm having a dialogue wit mr. Jim
jimscarver: my honey says i got to get off the computer now. quicik physics question kum? final question seth? kum can see our transcrpt and pick up where i left off
seth''the''homie: no seth is american i guess, my real name is nikita, it is greek name, but i live in ukraine and my native language is russian, i dont know why you ask but i think it would be more honest
seth''the''homie: when the friendship starts?
surkumdev1: you want to know when friendship starts? may be, when there is enough trust and admiration for each other individual
seth''the''homie: so wat is the value of friendship that based on admiration and trust?
jimscarver: the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
surkumdev1: well, it depends on how each individual assigns it
surkumdev1: there are different kind of friends
seth''the''homie: how it can be different kinds covered by one word?
seth''the''homie: friend is just friend
surkumdev1: there are friends for conviences
surkumdev1: there are true friends
surkumdev1: and they are lovers
surkumdev1: there is also bother hood
puppyonmyfeet joined the room
puppyonmyfeet: good evening jim
jimscarver: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
seth''the''homie: okay, thank you, it's just really hard to understand the meaning of the words that are not experienced on my own, unlike fear or joy
surkumdev1: oh
surkumdev1: hey puppy
surkumdev1: well, seth, it depends.
surkumdev1: so, what is your real question?
puppyonmyfeet: hi surk how about inserting the word giggle in every sentence
seth''the''homie: wat is friendship and wat is love, are they different and are they feelings?
jimscarver: she is asking how sadness and fear are different.
surkumdev1: well, friendship also has a component of intimacy to it
puppyonmyfeet: well one is real the other is experienced
surkumdev1: take women, for example, they do these seperating all the tine
surkumdev1: most women think that their children are the smartest in the world
surkumdev1: and their husbands are the best
surkumdev1: and better than anyone
jimscarver: seth thinks there are only two feelings, good and bad.
puppyonmyfeet: they just see them that way the best mothers anyway
surkumdev1: women usually show more perference for their own family
seth''the''homie: no just hold up? if i ask you wat the joy is? wat is your answer?
jimscarver: passion is neither good or bad necessarily
puppyonmyfeet: of course it about survival and seth is right there is only good and bad
surkumdev1: so, loving someone would equal to having no rational opnions of the other person?
jimscarver: friendhip plus passion is the feeling love?
surkumdev1: what is joy? joy is a profound feeling of happiness
surkumdev1: i think the word joy has become a clique and has lost meaning
puppyonmyfeet: exactlly love is an insanity that prevents rational thought as it should be
surkumdev1: i agree on puppy there
jimscarver: thats lust, no?
puppyonmyfeet: no lust is just feeling
surkumdev1: well, lust is something you do with a prostitute
seth''the''homie: you see it is simple to answer wat the joy is, cuz you are fast to remeber the last time you was happy, but wen i ask wat the love is you have no actual answer, cuz you cant remember exact moment
surkumdev1: or cheap slut
surkumdev1: well, me feeling joy?
surkumdev1: that happened like years ago
puppyonmyfeet: it takes a male to make a slut
seth''the''homie: but you still remember
surkumdev1: too
surkumdev1: well, i agree that males do that
jimscarver: a male slut
puppyonmyfeet: sure
surkumdev1: but slut is someone who would like you to pimp their mind
seth''the''homie: i'm just tryin to say that love and friendship are not feelings.. cuz feelings are cheaper than mind
surkumdev1: you have to play mind games to get a slut
surkumdev1: well, i disagree
puppyonmyfeet: all married people do that it is just ok then
surkumdev1: feelings are extremely powerful things
surkumdev1: well, i dunno puppy. I am not married
surkumdev1: and really, i dunno want to be married to a woman who wants to play mind games
surkumdev1: some women who like are extreme opposites of them
surkumdev1: but they are rare to find
surkumdev1: and most of them are taken
puppyonmyfeet: that is a given but remember we are all animals and the reason for everything is survival whether it be of your intellect or lust
jimscarver: i don't like the word slut at all as it is almost always used unfairly
puppyonmyfeet: it is just a word
surkumdev1: seth, feelings are powerful things
surkumdev1: they are far superior than the mind
seth''the''homie: but not stronger than mind
jimscarver: a deragatory degrating word
seth''the''homie: no
puppyonmyfeet: i do not agree
surkumdev1: well, they are
surkumdev1: u need to let them take control of you
puppyonmyfeet: feelings or words?
surkumdev1: a computer that try to beat kasprov tries billions or trillions of moves in parallel
seth''the''homie: have you ever jumped wit parachute?
surkumdev1: kasprov uses his feelings to think quickly
surkumdev1: he doesnt go a move by move
surkumdev1: well, i havent jumped out of a parachut
seth''the''homie: just answer that question please, have you jumped from the plain?
surkumdev1: i said no,
surkumdev1: i havent jumped out of plane
puppyonmyfeet: ah the computer analogy does not work
surkumdev1: well, what is your point?
surkumdev1: i want to.
surkumdev1: but someday, i will.
jimscarver: you are wrong kun, they are human beings who are just a bit more friendly then is good for them. they are human beings with complex needs and desires you are in no position to judge.
seth''the''homie: watever you feel fear, joy, anything else, the strongest will be thinking at this moment
puppyonmyfeet: why would anyone jump out of a plane?
russohio joined the room
surkumdev1: jim, what r u saying?
surkumdev1: i am wrong on what?
jimscarver: only he who is without sin can judge
surkumdev1: well, jim who am i judging?
puppyonmyfeet: what is sin?
russohio left the room
jimscarver: slutting
surkumdev1: no, i wasnt talki about that that
puppyonmyfeet: what is slutting
seth''the''homie: ok thank you all for your time.
seth''the''homie: ail be goin
surkumdev1: i was sayin that feeling are supiorer than the mind
jimscarver: bye, may your passions be varied
surkumdev1: well, puppy
surkumdev1: as i said, a slut is someone who you need to control in order to get a response
puppyonmyfeet: well i see that you think acting on your feelings eliminates thinking
surkumdev1: if you leave them to judge, they will just let someone control them
seth''the''homie: and i'm sayin that the mind is supiore than the feelings  ye passions are gud, especially wen you can control them
jimscarver: oh
surkumdev1: i use them when i program
surkumdev1: well, feelings are powerful things
surkumdev1: when i do physics
surkumdev1: even profs do that
surkumdev1: go to a really talented physics prof
puppyonmyfeet: ah there is another way to come at this problem
surkumdev1: and you will realize that he uses the world 'intitutive' a lot
surkumdev1: and they will tell you to learn to feel problems
jimscarver: never heard the word used that way.....
surkumdev1: well, i know extremely talented profs who use the word
surkumdev1: for example, Vishwani Agarwal, IEEE fellow did that
puppyonmyfeet: if you look at it as human varible
surkumdev1: and one of the talented and highly respected math prof at Rutgers, told me that too
jimscarver: slut i mean, sorry, yes intuitive results are felt.
surkumdev1: and Dr Steve Ferry, who ranked 13th on the putnam exam said the same thing. And told me that is how he actually got that rank
jimscarver: what?
surkumdev1: what do u mean by 'what'?
surkumdev1: putnam is this really really hard math exam where more than 80 percent of people who take it get 0s.
jimscarver: problems are felt i presume
surkumdev1: yes
surkumdev1: you feel problems by working out examples
puppyonmyfeet left the room
seth''the''homie: but they are solved after the mind's actions
surkumdev1: no, well the mind is the last one to make a judgement
surkumdev1: the mind tells how to direct one's subconsious processes
surkumdev1: for example, suppose, you get stuck on a problem, you move on
surkumdev1: something the mind tells you
seth''the''homie: alright give the answer by using your power feelings , 2 + 2 = ?
surkumdev1: but usally feelings always guide to a solution
surkumdev1: inventions do not come from logical thought processes
surkumdev1: if they do, they are just developments
surkumdev1: i know people who can
surkumdev1: i know people who can do 3193921392193x371731239018381028302 by feeling the answer
jimscarver: it is like when you close your eyes feel something with your fingers, it has texture resiliency, coolness, pattern. Many different things have a different feel. problems and circumstances have different feelings in our mind.
surkumdev1: for example, a famous example is Ramanuijan
surkumdev1: most of them time he was never able to prove his formulas
surkumdev1: but he used his feelings to get them
surkumdev1: and they were right
surkumdev1: some people have this 'number sense'
surkumdev1: it's rare
jimscarver: 1187280356447216376631262774846286
surkumdev1: and mostly people are taught not to listen to their feelings
surkumdev1: and that they are illogical
jimscarver: i cheated.....
surkumdev1: ha
surkumdev1: however, the best people in the world do otherwise
surkumdev1: my brother is considered to be a best chess player in his school
surkumdev1: and he was ranked like top 100 in star craft
surkumdev1: considering that a million people play this game
seth''the''homie: so can we make a conclusion that the mind is not that neccessary part of human? and how come it have developed to it's current state?
surkumdev1: well, feelings/intuition has been with us for a billion years
jimscarver: got to run
surkumdev1: the mind and reason are relativitly new
puppyonmyfeet joined the room
surkumdev1: ok, jim
seth''the''homie: yes it explains
seth''the''homie: bye jim
surkumdev1: the mind may be a way to delegate feelings
surkumdev1: for example, think about it as manager
jimscarver: leter all, sorry leave, hope you all come back
</pre>

{
� Here is a model of the toy animals and people use to 'feel' impossible answers. Though we have little experience of this yet, 5 people who 'link their toy' in this domain, can literally solve any possible problem, almost instantly.

A graphic representation which I should animate, but need an animator for:
http://www.organelle.org/ddd.html

Please, don't wait. Rebuild the ring. Remember our 'cognitive tail'. Learn, and link them, now, for mutual uplift and biospheric rescue...please

Discussion of this toy is primarily in the upper portion of this page, though I have other essays on it. For the moment I refer to it as an internally transtemporal connectivity window. Some would call it an angel. It's also an angle...it's a sentient connectivity device which is an emergent property of cellular symbiosis, and 'physics', though the latter is largely falsely founded.

http://www.organelle.org/sadasah.html
}
[[Category:DearDiary]]