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2026-01-28T11:54:25Z

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[[DearDiary]]
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David: whadd i mis
jimscarver: jimscarver: if any complex change information (more than two dimensions) is encoded in quantum communications we do not see it, and cannot get those thoughts of the universe.
jimscarver: was the last thing...
David: so. . . someone was listening? . . .
jimscarver: you
David: yeah
David: is it possible for the universe or some part of it to have a thought that is more complex than the thought media
David: all of the thoughts that play around in my mind are ultimatly electron exclusion events
David: i supose its all on a different scale complex or not
David: it is hard to imagine . . . I have no control over my thoughts, my thoughts control me
jimscarver: yes, mimple messages can convey compex ideas, but when a photon shoots accross the galaxy and penitrates an atom, which then propgates the change information into the future, the "hidden" info could be a complex as dna
jimscarver: your mind and body is slave (robot) of the gods.
jimscarver: or we are the spirits we allow in us
David: my problem is i have allowed too many spirits in and they are at war
David: but then i let them in because i was programed to do so
David: i supose i should try and stop looking at my eye with my eye its beginning to give me a mind ache
jimscarver: try an antienflamatory
David: is it healthy to filter the kinds of information we allow ourselves to take in or should we be open to anything
surkumdev1: what do u guys think of the following
surkumdev1: > My dad who is a social engineer (socialist?)says the 'why' question > doesn't belong in science. I ask him why and he gets mad. When > scientists have a theory, before anything, dont they want to know why > something is the way it is? I think its disingenous to say scientists > ask 'how', and philosophers ask 'why' - and historians write about it, > hey > I really depends on where you put the 'how' and the 'why'. Science is based on a system of posulate, that do not have mathematical proofs. However, based on empirical observation, are taken for granted. For example, within SR, you may not ask why the speed of light is constant in every frame of reference. This is an underlying posulate of SR. However, taking this granted, you may be abe to explain 'why' travellers,
surkumdev1: moving close to light speed, will have their time slowed down. In Newtonian physics, you have to take m dv/dt <code> - d/dx V(x) for granted. You cannot go anywhere by asking why this is true, within Netwonian framework. You could conduct experiments and show this to be consistant, however, you may not be to able to derive it. However, from the schrodinger's equation or hisenberg mechanics, you will be able to derive m d<v> /dt </code> - < d/dx V(x) > I once got into debate witht this person, who got upset because i said if you read David Griffits book, you will be able to understand Quantum Mechanics. He even quoted feyman saying 'nobody understands quantum mechanics.' It's was interesting one of 2 ways. Feyman himself won the Noble Prize in Physics, for QED. So, if he did not understand
surkumdev1: did he get a noble prize for plug and chugging? And feyman himself wrote many books on QM. So, it is important to put feyman statement into context. I really think he meant to say, 'nobody understands why quantum mechanics is the way it is.' However, his many books are on 'understanding how quantum mechanics the way it is'. Secondly, it is important to distinguish between 'rationale for things the way they are' and 'reasons for things the way they are.' Philosophers and Religions usually, indluge themselves over rationale for things, not necessalirily reason for things. Physics, and other sciences are more bent on reason for things. Their reason for things have to agree with experiment, which something philsophers rarely do.
David: QM seems to have painted itself into a corner . . . Science likes to take the high road and limit itself to that which is observable
David: then it constrains the definition of observable so that its domain is quite narrow indeed
David: i think if science ever got around to observing itself in a serious way it might find itself to be obsolete
David: of course that will not likely happen anytime soon short of a cultural revolution because science has ensured its success by enslaving the minds of most of the western world
David: the enslaved minds are told they have too much to loose if they rebel
jimscarver: it is not what goes into a man that defiles him, it is what comes out.
jimscarver: -- jesus
David: dang were did that come from

David: i am posesed
David: i became posesed by a rebel spirit last night
David: sorry koomar did not mean to obscure the question
David: it seems if the scientests and the historians and the philosopher/priests all asked themselves why do we keep asking questions within our repective domains we might find they all have the same answer
David: Koomar, are you adding your thought to [[WikiWorld]]?
jimscarver: we can't answer why binary differentials, but i think we can say why everything else based on binary differentials.
jimscarver: i was a rebel much of the weekend....
jimscarver: you could never say why their are strange fields and forses at a distance. because, they do not exist... they are useful figments of scientific imaginations.
surkumdev1: sorry,
surkumdev1: i wasnt at my computer
surkumdev1: now i am back
David: science doesnt want to ask the big WHY question it think it is ill equiped
bgtallguy joined the room
surkumdev1: or be, science acknowledges its own limitations
surkumdev1: science is not a religion
bgtallguy left the room
David: science is a system of thought that seeks to evolve grow and primaraly survive
surkumdev1: yes
David: religious thought systems are likewise the same
jimscarver: Science and Religion will meet.
David: the ofspring of science and religion will rebel against both and hopfully overthrow them
David: there i go again . . . . jeeesk whats goten into me
surkumdev1: well, i dunno
David: my mind has been infected with a meme virus . . .
surkumdev1: science is bound to change
ahmed_amria joined the room
surkumdev1: religion is always preached in terms of absolutes
surkumdev1: not all, but the most popular ones do
ahmed_amria: DAVID
David: YES
ahmed_amria: WARE ARE Y FROM
David: some guy asked if i wanted the blue pill or the Red pill and i think i took both but i dont remember
David: it seemed like a dream
David: Spokan Washington statE USA
David: North America
ahmed_amria: GOOD
jimscarver: you the one that found the white rabbit?
David: lol
ahmed_amria: INED YOU TO GO AMERKA
David: i used to have that trickster on my website
David: then i found another one on another website
David: last night . . . my mind has been in a state since
ahmed_amria: I NO
jimscarver: that was http://www.organelle.org/
David: yes
David: not sure what happened if it is significant or not or maybe just related to sleep deprivation or both
David: ahmed how can we help you?
ahmed_amria: PLES
jimscarver: we are listening ahmed
jimscarver: please pardon our side discussions...
ahmed_amria: IM EGYPT
David: you live in egypt and would like to find a way to USA ?
ahmed_amria: OKE
David: how can we help?
jimscarver: Stop the War http://unitedforpeace.org/article.php?list<code>sub&sub</code>30

David: that would be a start for sure
ahmed_amria: OKEI DREAM TO TRAVEL TO AMERCAIN BUT I DONT KNOW HOW CAN I GO THERE
ahmed_amria: CAN U HELP ME PLZ?
jimscarver: turn right when you get to cuba.
jimscarver: hum, sorry for that bad joke....
jimscarver: not sure how we can help
David: im thinking
ahmed_amria: OK I WILL WAIOT U
ahmed_amria: BUT PLZ DONT FORGET ME
David: some things make it hard
surkumdev1: ahmed, become a programmer
ahmed_amria: WHAT ITS ?
surkumdev1: get a job in a consulting company
David: traveling across the ocean costs money usually
surkumdev1: and they will bodyshop you to america
David: that could work
ahmed_amria: NO PROBS IN MONEY
David: ok
David: you need a sponser of some sort then?
ahmed_amria: HOW
surkumdev1: yes David
David: hmm . . . not sure
surkumdev1: the American company has to sponser you
surkumdev1: and prove that there nt qualified individual who can do your job
David: do you wish to stay more than a week or two
surkumdev1: in america
ahmed_amria: I WANT TO STAY THERE 4EVER
David: ah
ahmed_amria: WHAT?
David: ok
ahmed_amria: HOW?
David: then you need to convince US government that you can do something in USA that no one else can do
David: it sounds harder than it might be in reality
David: do you have specialized work skills
jimscarver: something other than blowing up buildings....
ahmed_amria: I TRIED THAT BEFORE BUT I CANT
ahmed_amria: NO I DONT
David: ok
jimscarver: good
surkumdev1: ahmed_amria, unless you have a noble prize, your visa will not be cetified if you say that you want to stay there forever
ahmed_amria: I DO
David:

ahmed_amria: BUT ITS CVERY DIFFECLUT HERE
surkumdev1: well, once you come here and work for 3-4 years
surkumdev1: you can apply for a green card
surkumdev1: and that would take another 3 years depending on various factors
ahmed_amria: OK BUT HOW?
David: what skills do you have
surkumdev1: well, what special qualifications do u have?
ahmed_amria: NO SKILLS
David: im curious . . . what is your native language?
David: how do you pay for house and food?
ahmed_amria: BUT I WORK AT TOURISTS
David: ok
David: what are your dreams besides living in USA
ahmed_amria: LIVE
surkumdev1: my uncle is a bus driver in india
David: you speak two languages that is a skill
ahmed_amria: AND FAMALE
David: ok
surkumdev1: actually 2 of my uncles are bus drivers
surkumdev1: you are female?
ahmed_amria: YOU CAN
David: family
ahmed_amria: YAS
surkumdev1: oh ok
ahmed_amria: PLEZ INED YOU
surkumdev1: ahmed, taxi cabbing will probably be ur job
jimscarver: ok, that's easy, you can marry surkumdev1, next.
surkumdev1: ha
David: ha
surkumdev1:
surkumdev1: anyways, i dunno ahmed
jimscarver: amria sounds much more feminine
ahmed_amria: HOW
David: the outlook is not good for you to get here unless you marry a USA citizen
surkumdev1: yes
surkumdev1: and do not trust americans (on marriage)
David: you might have a better chance of living your dream by changing the world you live in
surkumdev1: well, that's a hard shot
jimscarver: hey, i resent that remark, kum, americans marry more times than anyone.
David: either path is very difficult and full of danger
jimscarver: how old are you amria?
ahmed_amria: 25
surkumdev1: oh
surkumdev1: u male/female?
ahmed_amria: WAT?
ahmed_amria: M
surkumdev1: ok ok
ahmed_amria: AND...........
surkumdev1: then you could probably find ur way thru things
ahmed_amria: YEAH
surkumdev1: if you are female, you could probably easily marry someone. If you are male, you have to find other not so easy paths.
surkumdev1: either way, you would have to suffer to live your dream
ahmed_amria: U KNOW GIRL AGREE TO MARRY ME
surkumdev1: yes, american girls?
David: most girls i know are into love and all that
surkumdev1: david, this is a different country
surkumdev1: they will probably chop ur arm off for that
ahmed_amria: SHE AGREETO MARRY ME ?
surkumdev1: i mean, where is that girl from?
ahmed_amria: AMER
surkumdev1: AMERICA ?
ahmed_amria: YA
surkumdev1: good luck
surkumdev1: is she muslim?
ahmed_amria: NO U DONT UNDERSTAND ME
ahmed_amria: I WANT ONE
surkumdev1: oh
ahmed_amria: I DONT KNOW ANY BODY
surkumdev1: ok ok
ahmed_amria: U KNOW ?
surkumdev1: no not really
surkumdev1: i have trouble getting american women
ahmed_amria: CAN U SENT ME AN INVITION AND I WILL GIVE U WHAT U WANT
surkumdev1: anyways, if you do manage to come to america illegally, you will become a permanent resident if you manage to stay here for 10 years
surkumdev1: anyways, now is that the time to do that
surkumdev1: if you do that, they will put in prison and stuff
ahmed_amria: OK
ahmed_amria: U WILL SENT IT
surkumdev1: what do u mean? i send u what?
ahmed_amria: AN INVITION TO TRAVEL THERE
surkumdev1: invitation, .... me? I am a broke man
surkumdev1: i really have no such powers
David: i dont think he is asking for money
surkumdev1: no, i know what he meant
David: oh
surkumdev1: i mean, i wouldnt be able to fund any such thing
ahmed_amria: OK
ahmed_amria: TY
surkumdev1: Anyways, David, i tend to think that [[WikiWorld]] is built-on philosphy that people are naturally good
David: yes . . . many would agree
surkumdev1: amria, asking people on the internet is not going to help you
surkumdev1: really
ahmed_amria: BUT PLZ TELL ME IF U KNOW HOW I CAN GO THERE
surkumdev1: join the US army
ahmed_amria: PLZ MY FATHER IS THERE AND I WZNT TO SEE HIM
surkumdev1: my cousin in india is going joined the french army
ahmed_amria: I DIDNT SEE HIM SINCE 10 YEARS
surkumdev1: he is indian citizen
David: i had a friend in the UK that wanted to find a way to live here. I know that it is very difficult.
surkumdev1: well, join the french army
ahmed_amria: OK
surkumdev1: get a french passport and visa
surkumdev1: and come over here
surkumdev1: you do not have to be french citizen to join a certain program in their army
surkumdev1: hey say
surkumdev1: hey ahmed, if your dad is here
surkumdev1: ask him
surkumdev1: he probably knows more than me
surkumdev1: if he has been there for more than 10 years, he probably has a green card by now
jimscarver: so david, what spirit have you become?
David: not sure
David:
jimscarver: and surkum, put stuff on http://www.wikiworld.com/KooMar/
jimscarver: what happened?
David: well I was just playfully half sleepily reading organelle it seemed to harmanize with some things that had been floating around in my mind but i didnt think to much of it
David: then today i find myself spouting off stuff that normally wouldnt come from me
David: start thinking of thought systems as living entities that changes my perspective slightly
surkumdev1: > Do molecules in Brownian Motion take a 100% random > walk, or is their motion just causal, but unpredictable, > deterministic chaos? Chaos is a good word to describe it. Deterministic systems can also behave compeletely chaotically. An example is Windows 98. Since Windows 98 runs a computer, the flow of the program is determinstic. However, it does 'randomly' crash from time to time for 'unknown' reasons. It is possible, that with enough variables, you can figure out when it is going to crash. However, it is easier to model it as a random system
surkumdev1: jim, i am trying to get all my USENET posts
surkumdev1: and am probably going to put them on [[WikiWorld]]
surkumdev1: > George Gamow wrote that liquid and gas molecules do, > in effect, take a random walk and that we can calculate > the probability of all the air in any room suddenly gathering > to some random place in the room, in some arbitrarily > small volume. Do air molecules move contrary to > Newton's First and Second Laws of Motion, ignoring > the repellent electrical forces of their atomic shells? > What am I missing? > Not really, George Gamow, carefully chose his words. Remember that he tell that you can calculate the ''''''probability'''''' that all air molecules suddenly gather in arbitarily small volume. To translate his statement (into some else's statement), giving 1000 monkeys, a 1000 typewriters, for a 1000 000 000 years, there is probability that one of those monkey will ha
David: hyberbole in understatements
surkumdev1: huh?
David: sorry koomar
David: pay no mind to the man behind the curtian
David: newton observed the very predictable probability of electron exclusion events in the aggragate
jimscarver: you believe anything is really random?
surkumdev1: man behind the curtain?
jimscarver: molecules are like fredkins machine, deterministic.
jimscarver: in theory
surkumdev1: the schrodinger's equation is a determinstic equation
David: random may be at times a usefull metephor for things we dont understand fully
jimscarver: yes
jimscarver: too much information is noise
jimscarver: random....
David: I feel like a 2 year old putting together random word and hopping something makes sense
surkumdev1: schrodinger's equation can be understood from the prespective of the many world theory
David: like the static on the tv when a chanel is out
jimscarver: the all possible world theory.... makes no sence to me.
surkumdev1: when the histories branch, you can go into either one
jimscarver: duh.
surkumdev1: jim, why not?
David: each dot of information is meaningfull if you could trace it back to the source but we cant
surkumdev1: David, the schrodinger's equation is reversible
surkumdev1: however, you have to take all histories into account
jimscarver: kalamara show the real, many worlds, everything has one, defined by their light cone, no others exist.
David: the only thing i know if schrodinger is from a Star Treck book i read that explained the premise of an alternate universe
David: something about a cat in a box
surkumdev1: yeah
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jimscarver: he came up with equation that exhibits properties of quantum mechanics.
David: what about worlds that emerge from the complexity of the universe
surkumdev1: oh
David: my fantacy is a world unto itself . . . of course it can be reduced to electron exclusion events in my nuron network
surkumdev1: huh?
surkumdev1: what do u mean?
David: Science has created a whole universe in which many differnet thought systems compete for supremecy
surkumdev1: oh
surkumdev1: what do u mean 'science has created' ?
David: these can still be reduced to electron exclusion events of course
David: that statment implies science is a living system that is trying to survive
surkumdev1: what do u mean by electron exclusion events?
jimscarver: that cat died.
jimscarver: they are participatory in nature, they have participants, each has a world view that contributes to the collective world view.
jimscarver: we each have our own universe
jimscarver: electron exclusion events is the simpled way to understand all that we experirnce kum.
David: our individual universes is a qaulitativly diferent domain from shrodingers mutliple universes
surkumdev1: oh
David: for me it is a black box much like the greeks atom
David: i dont get it but then i dont need to to use it
surkumdev1: ok
jimscarver: one 2D electron defines no point in 3D space. 2 of opposite spin define a "quanta" of space" by failing to occupie the same space. Pauli exclusion principle.
surkumdev1: huh? no
David: hmm. . . maybe i am starting to get it?
surkumdev1: pauli's exclusion principle applies because electrons and distinguishable particles with anti symmetric requirements
surkumdev1: it's just if 2 electrons have the wave equation, then the composite wave equation becomes 0
jimscarver: in the outside would, each "exclusion" event is a transfer of state change information between electrons which is sometimes called a photon..
surkumdev1: jim. what is an "exclusion" event?
surkumdev1: *it's just if 2 electrons have the same wave equation, then the composite wave equation becomes 0
jimscarver: it can include any number of state changes in two dimensions representing multiple exclusions.
surkumdev1: why 2 dimensions?
jimscarver: electrons have excactly two proporties and can only manifest at most 2 dimensions.
surkumdev1: 2 properties?
surkumdev1: what are they?
David: spin and charge
David: no?
surkumdev1: how about velocity, mass....
surkumdev1: position
David: these are emergent
jimscarver: electron and positron can become zero, not two electrons,
surkumdev1: yes, when they anhilate each other
David: no such thing as mass
David: that is cool
David: i knew it
surkumdev1: what is mass then?
jimscarver: those are relative properties, not inherinent to the electron itself.
surkumdev1: well, why not inherent?
jimscarver: rest mass is the total contributed by charge and spin
surkumdev1: how about properties like baryon number, topness, charm, upness?
surkumdev1: how?
ahmed_amria left the room
jimscarver: those get inside the atom, works like hypertetrahedral inside, exclusion events explain ordinary 3D experience.
surkumdev1: how?
jimscarver: events create space
jimscarver: events occure when electrons might occupie the same space, defining space.
jimscarver: they are all that we percieve
jimscarver: they manifest all the forses
David: Jim, does information physics basicly ignore superstring theroy as a red herring?
surkumdev1: oh
jimscarver left the room
David: did i get booted?
jimscarver joined the room
jimscarver: shucks, i lost everything
David: oh no
surkumdev1: lost what?
jimscarver: just the chat actually...
surkumdev1: ok
David: too bad that was some cool stuff
jimscarver: what's up with [[SevenLambs]]?
David: not sure
surkumdev1: sevenlambs?
David: has something to say though
jimscarver: do you [[GetIt]] Kum?
surkumdev1: no, i dont [[GetIt]]
surkumdev1: what does he mean?
jimscarver: [[SevenLambs]] updated [[WikiWorld]] http://www.wikiworld.com/wiki/index.php/AnimalCommunication
David: There should be a way to log the chat automatically
jimscarver: the gods are not with me in getting those to worklogs
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David: i think he is saying we could communicate with animials but we forgot how because preditory thought systems robbed us of the requisite thought organs
jimscarver: Kum, everything we experience is electron exclusions, can you see how that is true?
surkumdev1: well...
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surkumdev1: if the brain uses electrical impluses for cognition
jimscarver: Kum, like http://www.wikiworld.com/wiki/index.php/TheCaseOfTheElectronCollision creates space between our electrons.
surkumdev1: then i can see what you are saying
David: electron exlusions create everything, light mass, distance, time, space, gravity
David: all of these experiences emerge from electron exlusion events
jimscarver:
David: im just speaking for the theroy
jimscarver: train time
David: awww
David: i was just getting rolling
surkumdev1: i am reading
jimscarver: you don't need me
David: i dont understand any of it
jimscarver: lol
David: im just spouting off what the theroy is putting in my head
surkumdev1: jim, i disagree with parts of ur idea
jimscarver: just talk the talk, lol
David: exactly
jimscarver: talk later. Uload some songs and stuff

David: ok jim
David: take it easy
jimscarver: kum, upload

surkumdev1: well, jim, well, i do not have the password
surkumdev1: i closed my AIM window
surkumdev1: while i was doing the conversion

surkumdev1: jim, i disagree with parts of ur idea
jimscarver: just talk the talk, lol
David: exactly
jimscarver: talk later. Uload some songs and stuff

David: ok jim
David: take it easy
jimscarver: kum, upload

surkumdev1: well, jim, well, i do not have the password
surkumdev1: i closed my AIM window
surkumdev1: while i was doing the conversion
jimscarver: ftp://wikiworld@wikiworld.com
jimscarver: i'll happily answer all your concerns Kum so we can get this shit published.
jimscarver: it works.
jimscarver: i'm gone... c u
jimscarver left the room
surkumdev1: see u
David: whoa MS Transact SQL has some non deterministic functions . . . I wonder what that is?

David: brb
surkumdev1: hey dave
surkumdev1: http://wikiworld.com/KooMar/
David: cool
surkumdev1: my artwork
David: I like the artwork
David: didnt listen to the music yet but i will when i get home
David: I played around with graphic design a few years back
David: you have flair for it
surkumdev1: i try
David: What is JANE in a nutshell
surkumdev1: it was my project
surkumdev1: it's basically my neural net processor
David: is it ready for testing?
David: what stage is it in?
surkumdev1: well, i made it was a while back
surkumdev1: yeah, it works
David: cool
surkumdev1: only theorectically
surkumdev1: within simulation
surkumdev1: it's vhdl implementation works
David: how could someone set it up?
surkumdev1: well, still, computers are bad when its comes to laying out hardware
David: do you have an algorithm for it in psudocode?
surkumdev1: humans do it manually by hand
surkumdev1: yes
David: ahh i see
surkumdev1: but, the pain is that humans can good at manually laying things out
surkumdev1: and optimizing for space
surkumdev1: and decreasing the number of gates
surkumdev1: this is something computers cannot do, till now
David: hmm . . . does it rely on patter recognition then
surkumdev1: well, my project?
David: your algorithm
David: patern^
surkumdev1: well, it's a processor, for a single neuron
surkumdev1: you can program it
David: I imagine it has a basic set of instructions
surkumdev1: yes
surkumdev1: simple instructions
surkumdev1: you can cascade many janes
David: ok
surkumdev1: to do real time neural stuff
David: i would love to take a look at the algorithm some day
David: im wondering if it approaches a concept that I have been thinking about
surkumdev1: oh
surkumdev1: it's just basic stuff
David: that is what i love
David: basic componants that could self assemble into larger copies of itself
surkumdev1: yes
David: the trouble with metadata is you allways have to start somewhere
surkumdev1: yeah
David: the metadata class itself is an object that needs to be classed
surkumdev1: http://wikiworld.com/KooMar/Jane/Jane.jpg
surkumdev1: the image is stolen
David: i saw it that looks cool
David: I wonder what a VM version of JANE would look like
David: I wonder how many VM copies of JANE could run on a single modern day workstation
surkumdev1: JANE was built to use customizable hardware based neural networks
David: could that be simulated or would that defeat the purpose?
David: im guessing there already is a platform for simulate neual nets
surkumdev1: it can be. but it really defeats the purpose
surkumdev1: David, there are neural processors
surkumdev1: however, they were expensive to make
surkumdev1: nowadays, people are not into neural nets as they used to be
David: ok i c . . . you were trying to fill a niche for inexpensive hardware based neural nets
surkumdev1: neurons need not be perfect
surkumdev1: which is why 4-bit is ok
David: simple and scalar
surkumdev1: well, it was just a school project
surkumdev1: i actually have nueral net implementations in assembly
surkumdev1: parallelized for the PIII
David: i am barely an infant when it comes to programming
David: I know in priciple what a nural net is but wouldnt even have the fogiest idea how to implement one
David: that brings me to an interesting thought
surkumdev1: oh
David: your familier with the general turing princible
surkumdev1: i know about turing thesis and stuff
surkumdev1: explain, which one
David: by definition any general turing machine could simulate any other general turing machine
surkumdev1: yes
David: ok
surkumdev1: and... you were going to say
David: I read a fictional story about some hackers
surkumdev1: yeah
David: who hacked the body as if it were a general turing machine ok
surkumdev1: oh
surkumdev1: interesting
David: one of the hackers ran a simulation of a new 'mod' to the body on a pc
surkumdev1: ok
David: i supose in princible this would work
surkumdev1: not really
David: assuming first of all that the body is a general turing machine
surkumdev1: you can run windows on top of linux
David: all you would need is enough time
surkumdev1: because u hack windows, doesnt mean that you have successfully hacked linux in the background
surkumdev1: viruses hack the body all the time
David: I was more interested in trying to determine what kind of hard ware would be required to pull a simulation of the body in a reasonable amount of time
surkumdev1: well, i dunno think such questions can be answered with current technology
surkumdev1: the body is so complicated
David: the thing is important interactions are being carried out at the molecular level and many are begining to speculate even at the quantam level
David: exactly
David: the only resonable set of hardware to carry out such an experiemtne would be the body itself
surkumdev1: yeah
David: even one single cell within one organ is beyond our abbility to grasp
surkumdev1: well, human beings can understand things to a level
surkumdev1: but evolution is such an excellent designer
David: even the process of replicating one small strand of DNA is beyond our ability to model
surkumdev1: it's only a matter of time though
David: my point is im not sure if we can modle these things without using these things to modle them
David: when i read stuff on AI they go on about how the processors of todays computers are faster than the speed of human minds
surkumdev1: processors faster than the human mind?
David: it seems silly to compare because they do not understand the quantum reactions that may contain significant information
surkumdev1: not really
David: in terms of cycles per second
surkumdev1: well, think of vision
surkumdev1: think of how you can look at an object from the side and identify it
surkumdev1: think of your vision's resolution.
David: pattern recognition
David: ?
surkumdev1: yes
surkumdev1: the human brain does so many computations per second
David: well i am not sure how they arrive at the comparision
surkumdev1: think of Gary Kasprov and how many moves Deep Blue played before beating him
surkumdev1: actually, before tieing with them
surkumdev1: tieing with him*
David: yeah
David: and that is a game with rules that suite the machine processes
surkumdev1: yes
David: suit^
surkumdev1: so, u can see what i am saying
David: i agree
David: there is more than meets the eye
surkumdev1: the human brain's computation are optimized for a different kind of processes
surkumdev1: not mechanical ones
David: agreed
David: it is interesting to me that the basic cellular systems could be considered mechanic
surkumdev1: i would still say that even mechanically one cannot compare man with a computer
David: and from this complex machinery
David: emerges intelligence
surkumdev1: yeah
David: qualitatively different
David: im just not sure if there is a short cut to intelligence
surkumdev1: brb
David: if we use the evolutionary model we would need an information system as complex as the earths echo system and the same amount of time as it took to get to us
surkumdev1: that's why we need to steal nature's new technology
surkumdev1: brb
David: hello
David: byee
mohamed_842004 joined the room
surkumdev1: hey
surkumdev1: dave
David: yeah
surkumdev1: so u were saying
David: im not sure we as humans could create or engineer true intelligence in machines
surkumdev1: oh
David: I think they will have to figure it out for themselves
David: we can sure create some cool tools though
surkumdev1: oh
David: ok kumar i must run
David: have a fantastic rest of your day
</pre>
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I miss our chats :-) BTW where did Koomar go? --DS
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Koomar is at boot camp. He's in the army now. I think he'll be back in about 2 months. -- [[JimScarver]]

[[Category:DearDiary]]

DearDiary.2003-02-10 - Revision history

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