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== Definition ==
''''[[Greed]]''''- excessive or reprehensible acquisitiveness.

Humans have a need to have more of anything, more power. Nothing can change this, it's a part of [[HumanNature]]. It wouldn't matter how a new market is set up, a [[NewEconomy]], or anything else. The [[HumanGreed]] will fail it, as it has with present workings.

== [[Greed]] drives economics ==
Viable economic models depend on greed. People are allowed to be greedy. Our [[SocialContract]] must demand that we allow them to be greedy or any other way they want to be while protecting our right to be how we wish to be.

Being greedy is an expression of selfishness. Selfishness is an expression of acting in ones interest. We are each alone responsible for defending our own self interest. While there may be others sharing certain interests, and some of us are lucky enough to have families and others caring for our interests, one cannot expect others to look our for their needs and desires. We are [[SovereignIndividuals]].

Fortunately, values change and life is not a [[ZeroSumGame]]. We are not bound by value that exists, we can create value. Having more currencies is just a way of freeing ourselves from a monopoly on value. This does not eliminate greed in the [[HumanAnimal]], it just gives [[Greed]] less power over our future.

The present system has not failed. It has been resilient, and evolved to support a great civilization. Yet we are always reminded, the it is a chaotic systems that is inherently unpredictable. [[PertibationTheory]] and [[NetworkTheory]] prove that small influences can generate global outcomes. What [[WE]] do determines whether we have another Great Depression or the economy sustains 20-30% return on investments (like Enron) continuously. People call me an optimist, some people thought Enron could work in a fluctuating market. It is foolish to think you can sustain growth playing a [[ZeroSumGame]].

New economic systems can't eliminate the inhuman treatment of employees greed generates, the most we can do is insure greed does not destroy our planet should we fulfill our responsibility to invest our common resources profitably for humanity in a [[DeclarationOfInterdependence]].

--[[JimScarver]]

== It's just [[HumanAnimal]]s ==
Certainly [[Greed]] is a way of expression, that's just it. The failure in Enron was the result of humans, not market. While you can argue that the current market is a result of certain occurrences, it would boil down to the humans. Would [[HumanGreed]] destroy the planet? That's arguable. Humans may, and possibly through their greed, but you cannot say the root cause of it would be [[HumanGreed]].

As a final note, if [[Greed]] corrupts the market, would it also affect people living [[TheGoodLife]]? Maybe.

--[[KenSchry]]

== [[QualityOfLife]] is inverse to the effort it takes to have it ==
[[LorraineLee|My]] idea of what [[QualityOfLife]] is is more or less inversely proportional to the amount of greed that is necessary in order to survive in a given place and time. The harder a bargain you have to drive to break even, the more of a bitch life is. My quality of life has been going down since about 1980.

== Is there [[Greed]] at the start of a market? ==
Certainly it is true, you have to have a degree of [[Greed]]to survive in the given time, taking the present frame as an example. But what if the timeframe was at the beginning of the idea of marketing, before the [[Greed]]. If given the chance, would you put the economy on a track of non-[[Greed]], where people could run businesses honestly? Darn, I didn't mean to get into [[EconomicGreed]]......

--[[KenSchry]]

== Where did [[Greed]] come from? ==
Then stick with [[HumanGreed]]. But from where comes the idea that greed was invented at a specific time, before which there was not [[Greed]]. Also, what makes you think that marketing predates [[Greed]]?

=== There was no [[Greed]] before large markets ===
Never did say marketing predates [[Greed]], but that there is [[Greed]] in the current market. I can argue though, that at a point in time before corporate companies, people sold products entirely based on the quality. And if [[HumanGreed]] can morph into [[EconomicGreed]] or so, all the better......

== [[Greed]] existed before [[HumanAnimal]] ==
You may argue it, but [[Greed]] predates the [[HumanAnimal]]. The earliest forms of life knew [[Greed]]. To be [[Greed]]y, is to be alive and striving to stay that way. [[Greed]] is a [[LifeDrive]], as surely as breathing. All other forms of [[Greed]] are merely extensions and shadows of our basic [[Greed]] itself, and of our own understanding that we must have, to survive.

[[Greed]] is neither good nor evil, just as breathing is neither good nor evil. It is what people do with their [[Greed]] motivations that make us view these various [[Greed]]s as good or bad. ---[[StarPilot]]

== [[HumanAnimal]]s make [[Greed]] bad ==
All of these points..... It really matters the way you look at it. It is true, [[Greed]] is a way of expression and survival. That greed is immmenent in the [[DeclarationOfInterdependence]], yes. But those are the reasons [[Greed]] is good, but are we overlooking that in some/most cases, [[Greed]] is bad? [[StarPilot]] is correct, greed is bad when in human use. But that only brings us back to the beginning, arguing that a new economy would not matter because of the greed. --[[KenSchry]]

== [[Greed]] is only bad when it destroys ==
I consider [[Greed]] evil only when it is destructive. [[VultureCapitalism]] and [[DogEatDogCapitalism]] are counter-productive to growth of the economy, I can't call them bad necessarily, but they are bad generally, as they serve to increase the number of starving babies. Not giving your money to feed the starving babies is not evil or [[Greed]], it is suvivalist, but excuding the families of the starving babies from economic opportunity is stupid, evil, bad, and wrong. [[WE]] have a responsibility to engineer the [[NewEconomy]] to sustain growth and feed our children. -- [[JimScarver]]

== Wise Woman traveling (a story) ==
A wise woman who was traveling in the mountains found
a precious stone in a stream.

The next day she met another traveler who was hungry,
and the wise woman opened her bag to share her food.

The hungry traveler saw the precious stone and asked
the woman to give it to him. She did so without hesitation.

The traveler left rejoicing in his good fortune. He knew
the stone was worth enough to give him security for a
lifetime.

But, a few days later, he came back to return the stone
to the wise woman.

"I've been thinking," he said. "I know how valuable this
stone is, but I give it back in the hope that you can
give me something even more precious.

Give me what you have within you that enabled you to give
me this stone."

-Author Unknown

== [[Greed]] is bad? ==
[[KenSchry]], if you believe that [[Greed]] is bad/evil, you should just kill yourself now, and stop playing the game. To live is to be [[Greed | greedy]].

Most people do not use their [[Greed]] for bad or evil purposes. Is it an evil purpose for a mother to protect her child? Is it an evil purpose for people to cooperate in this game we call society?

Since you seem stuck on [[Greed]]=Evil, I'll repeat. [[Greed]] is merely selfishness/self-centered. 99 out of 100 uses people's [[Greed]] drive them to, are for the betterment of themselves, their family, and their society. It's that 1% that we view as bad.

Remember, it is not [[Greed]] that our history looks down upon. It is extreme [[Greed]]. Anything taken to an extreme is bad. ---[[StarPilot]]

== Out of context ==
Our views are being mixed up. Look [[StarPilot]], I meant to define greed in a [[VultureCapitalism]] sense. So as you seem to want to put it, in the market there's [[VultureCapitalism]], in [[VultureCapitalism]] there is [[HumanGreed]], and in that situation, [[Greed]] is evil.

And for good measure, I'm not going to kill myself, and I'm going to keep playing the game, for now.

--[[KenSchry]]

HumanGreed - Revision history

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