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=== Violating the SocialContract ===
{{Extract|
|extract =

[[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}#User unknown|
1 - Someone (StarPilot?) questioned if it is correct to link to SocialContract from the WE page. For this person the goal of wikiworld is the search for global effects for a small WE. It is possible that it is necessary to violate the SocialContract for this goal. So it is better that the WE does not presents itself pointing at the SocialContract.
]]

[[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}#StarPilot|
2 - According to StarPilot this means refining the SocialContract
]]

[[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}#Alle van Meeteren 10:01, 7 July 2006 (EDT) |
3 - Alle sees the SocialContract as the constitution of the WE. Violating it will be the end of the WE, or at least a break in the WE, a change, even if the violation is necessary for the purpose of the former WE.
]]

[[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}#StarPilot 16:33, 7 July 2006 (EDT) |
4 - StarPilot pointed on the fact that a person can violate the SocialContract.
]]

[[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}#Alle van Meeteren 01:39, 8 July 2006 (EDT) |
5 - Alle asked StarPilot to correct this overview, if he thinks it is necessary
]]
|by = Alle van Meeteren
}}

====[[User:Alle van Meeteren|Alle van Meeteren]] 01:39, 8 July 2006 (EDT)====
{{tosurvey |name = Violating the SocialContract|namespace = {{NAMESPACE}} |page = {{PAGENAME}} |next = Violating the SocialContract|former = StarPilot 16:33, 7 July 2006 (EDT)| nr = 5}}
[[StarPilot]], I know a person can violate the [[SocialContract]]. But that is not the point here. The point is that someone suggested not to mention the [[SocialContract]], presenting the [[WE]], because that [[SocialContract]] can become an obstacle for the purpose of this [[WikiWorld]]. That is my reading of the remark. I put it down in the extract, above. Please, will you - in our collective effort for understanding eachother, replace that extract by your reading of the discussion? I think that will be very informative.

====[[User:StarPilot|StarPilot]] 16:33, 7 July 2006 (EDT)====
{{tosurvey |name = Violating the SocialContract|namespace = {{NAMESPACE}} |page = {{PAGENAME}} |next = Alle van Meeteren 01:39, 8 July 2006 (EDT)|former = Alle van Meeteren 10:01, 7 July 2006 (EDT)|nr = 4}}
As the [[WE]] is everyone, it is very easy for the individuals in the [[WE]] to go against the [[SocialContract]] of the [[WE]]. The [[SocialContract]] is discussed on several levels, including what an ideal [[SocialContract]] should be. By viewing world events, on the macro (national) as well as the micro (city) and nano (individual) levels, we can see that there is room for improvement, with our own actions and with our fellow members of the [[WE]] as well. At its heart, [[WikiWorld]] is about how small smart groups or even individuals can effect a change for the better in the greater collective. (See: [[SmallWorld]], [[NetworkTheory]]) --

====[[User:Alle van Meeteren|Alle van Meeteren]] 10:01, 7 July 2006 (EDT)====
{{tosurvey |name = Violating the SocialContract|namespace = {{NAMESPACE}} |page = {{PAGENAME}} |next =StarPilot 16:33, 7 July 2006 (EDT) |former =StarPilot|nr = 3}}
* I cannot imagine our collective effort violating our [[SocialContract]]. [[WE]] are the product of the [[SocialContract]]. Of course, there is a bigger society around this [[WE]]. One can imagine (hardly, if I speak for myself) that the social base of this bigger society can be violated by our collective effort. But, that is quite another question.

====[[User:StarPilot|StarPilot]]====
{{tosurvey |name = Violating the SocialContract|namespace = {{NAMESPACE}} |page = {{PAGENAME}} |next = Alle van Meeteren 10:01, 7 July 2006 (EDT)|former = User unknown|nr = 2}}
This would suggest that the [[SocialContract]] needs to be refined. By the [[WikiWorld]] principle [[ConsensusByDefault]], the [[SocialContract]] that [[WE]] agree to should be the true [[SocialContract]] of the [[WE]]. Yes? Isn't that what we effectively went through on the [[AnewGo]] [[NewLaw]] issue?

====User unknown====
{{tosurvey |name = Violating the SocialContract|namespace = {{NAMESPACE}} |page = {{PAGENAME}} |next = StarPilot|former = |nr = 1}}
Should we include a link in the See Also section to [[SocialContract]]? What is the reasoning for this inclusion? It seems unrelated to how a small [[WE]] can have global effects, for instance:
* if our collective effort violated our [[SocialContract]], could if be good?
* see discussion Objective criteria

== Are you sure you are interested in dialog? ==

Alle, you really don't seem to be that interested in dialog. You seem much more interested in filing and organizing.

Note that you take on average some 20 changes to just make your changes. On big efforts, you take almost 70 edits to get the page ordered and filed to your liking. I'm not against someone refactoring a page, but these long lists of changes are having the knock off effect of making it difficult to use the local history and global [[Special:Recentchanges|Recent Changes]]. That blocks the maintainence of the site (checking page changes to making sure they haven't been vandalised) as well as tracking pages of somewhat interest to people (but not so much they have placed it on their watch list).

While this is a text world and therefore allows us an opportunity to communicate in non-standard formats, we still need to be able to actually talk. All participants need to be able to follow the dialog and to follow the changes in between their visits. If you want to make 8 seperately themed comments to something, please do so. But if you scatter them about in your own system, you cannot expect others to actually find them and reply (the problem with non-standard systems is less people can use it). If you spend 4 hours re-filing a page to your system, you are also limiting your own ability to read and respond to other pages that have changed.

If taking 20 edits to bump things around to your liking makes you happy, that's great for you. But if you end up spending all your available time on only one or two pages, then you aren't getting a chance to further synthesize [[WikiWorld]] into a more intelligent consensus. It seems to me that your system is keeping you from participating--- and that's against our [[SocialContract]] here, you know. ;-)

Try to have some fun while you are here!

---[[User:StarPilot|StarPilot]] 13:54, 14 July 2006 (EDT)

Talk:Thinking about our Social Contract - Revision history

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