DearDiary,
You are in "Collective Intelligence:1" ( http://WikiWorld.com Our Collective Intelligence manifest? )
David (dsiegel_spkn) joined the room
jimscarver: wow
jimscarver: kum was a maniac yesterday.... missing today.
David: i know
David: its going to take a bit to assimilate all new stuff
jimscarver: a lot of the physics is links to the classical that you don't need.
David: <smile>
David: i was just browsing through [[SevenLambs]] page
jimscarver: truth be told....
jimscarver: I WAS FLYING
jimscarver: lol
David: for real i always wanted to fly for real
jimscarver: not objectively real
David: <smile>
jimscarver: been out to www.newciv.ord yet?
David: not yet
jimscarver: www.newciv.org
David: but i will count on it <smile>
jimscarver: i expect we will find more synergies there, and the new system they have is nice.
jimscarver: we should add wokiwold as an organization, etc. etc. etc. connect, connect, connect.
jimscarver: why settle for 7 when you can have 100 monkeys
jimscarver: for exponencial growth approximating a singularity
jimscarver: perhaps seven is enough to insure success.
David: it seams 7 is an easy number to replicate
jimscarver: flying is easier if you leave your body
David: agreed and just as fun as real flying
David: the body seems to stubbornllly addhear to the concept of gravity
David: synergy of seven reproducing itself exponentially
jimscarver: glad you didn't say "force" of gravity, there is none, the earth just sucks (zpe).
David: lol my language is being edited by the Information Theory
David: gravity is an abstraction that lives in our mind no?
jimscarver: only 2 links each makes 105
David: that make for some amazing changes
jimscarver: it is the shape of the electro magnetic information universe, involving all participants mindless or not.
jimscarver: it is an abstraction of the cosmic conciousness of which our minds and bodies are part
David: I was just talking about this very thing with a couple of friends i meet with periodically
jimscarver: we are a very long way from mental control of gravity i expect.
David: i expect your right
jimscarver: there are our shared realities where we can fly when no one else is watching. the do have a reality too.
jimscarver: they call it mass hysteria.
jimscarver: lol, but it is real locally....
jimscarver: guess you are bummed about not being able to fly by controlling gravity.
David: sometimes
jimscarver: don't dispair, you can always grow wings
David: there are many ways to overcome gravity . . . our atmosphere gives us a medium for one of them
David: maybe the earths magnetic field could be another? . . . ? . . ?
David: pure uneducated speculation . . . . <sounding like drone> its all ellectron exlusion events
jimscarver: taking an airplane of magnoplane is cheating
David: why?
jimscarver: you do get it i think
David: my HS physics teacher told me that the electromagnetic concept is much more powerful than gravity
jimscarver: well, flying without a flying machine woulf be the coolest.
David: yes by far
David: that would be majik . . .
jimscarver: indeed, and now you know there is no force of gravity at all, just lost event space between objects.
David: there could be all sorts of emergent "forces" that classic physics would consider "novel"
jimscarver: and gravity effect is inversely proportional to distance, so given short enough distance can be emmense, in theory.
jimscarver: there are no forces
David: gravity is just a fancy label we put on the experience of loss of space
David: space itself is another fancy label
jimscarver: info communication of state change information
jimscarver: only
jimscarver: space is zpe, distance measures our causal independence.
David: ZPE ?
jimscarver: all the energy from the early universe we cant see as it is the lowest to compare against, hence, zero point energy.
jimscarver: it is HUGE, 175 giga-electron volts density.
jimscarver: it is what space is made of. very very old electron exclusion events.
David: is it like an ocean in which the planets and stars and all other complex systems swim?
jimscarver: except every event is inderdendent and does not interact as molecules in the sea do, there in no aether of substrate of any fixed number of dimensions that info travels through, the info is the space.
jimscarver: independent
jimscarver: the events are world lines, they define space, they are the same from all directions no matter how fast or slow you think you are going.
David: the info is the space . . . I still need to study this in order to have some sort of intuitive grasp
David: electrons dont move through space . . . collectively they define space
David: or destroy space as the case may be
jimscarver: right.
David: i keep trying to visualize an electron moveing through space until it comes close to another one as if it were a solid object with majical properties of spin and charge
jimscarver: movement is relative, who says who is moving is relative to them, no absolute movement.
David: that is esentially flawed
David: hmm . . . .
jimscarver: well, see, a postron going up is indistigushable from an electron going down. the only thing the electron wants to do it annihlate its positron partner but it is a case of mistaken identity we call an exclusion event.
jimscarver: the state change it receives from the past looks like a hole it can fill with an opposite state change, but the hole was in the past, so the state change wanders into the future till it finds a listener.
David: now time has a discreet resolution right
jimscarver: event time is orderings of events. the orderings can manifest space and or time depending on your relative motion. space manifests time at the speed of light, to the nearest event.
jimscarver: disagreements in time ordering manifest space. each exclusion event has contrary ordering to the participants.
David: your words are creating a fractal GA storm in my mind
David: feels good haaah .. . <in best James Brown>
jimscarver: the angle of your light cone shows what event orderings you see at time, and which you see as space.
jimscarver: and the angle of your dangle is propotional to the hypotinouse of the love triangle.
jimscarver: maybe not...
David: dangle . . . ? <searching google>
David: lol
jimscarver: think of lots of lightes all over the universe flasing at effectively the same instant, the ORDER you see the flashes maps their distance from you.
jimscarver: at the primative event level the ordering is space.
David: it is the order in which my collection of electrons experienc each 'light' in the universe that creates the illusion of space
jimscarver: exactly but it is more than an illusion, it represent an inescapable difference in time.
David: ok i used that term because my understanding of space seems to be flawed at the fundamental level
jimscarver: everything is a clock, space enforces than no one sees any clock going backwards.
jimscarver: space doesn't need to do anything special to enforse that since the tick is gone before the tock is manifest.
jimscarver: all is orderings of events
David: I think i could almost read some of the stuff on [[InfoPhysics]] and get closer to an intuitive grasp
David: maybe the contructs in my mind are sufficiently scrambled
jimscarver: lol
David: contrucks
jimscarver: i am working on a piece, the [[InformationUniverse]] which I hope will help present all this better.
David: our mind is an amazing creature . . . . yes?
jimscarver: yes
David: do you ever wonder where our mind is taking us? . . . . <smile>
jimscarver: no, across the galazy and beyond lol
David: what ever and wherever . .. its all good
jimscarver: indeed, if i knew where all this was going i could just kill myself now.
David: if you ever get a chance read the story of mother earth on Organelle . . . very bueatifull
jimscarver: i will, tnx, we should remember to add links to good stuff whenever we find it... connections are everything.
David: yes very true
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are in "Collective Intelligence:1" ( http://WikiWorld.com Our Collective Intelligence manifest? )
David (dsiegel_spkn) joined the room
jimscarver: wow
jimscarver: kum was a maniac yesterday.... missing today.
David: i know
David: its going to take a bit to assimilate all new stuff
jimscarver: a lot of the physics is links to the classical that you don't need.
David: <smile>
David: i was just browsing through [[SevenLambs]] page
jimscarver: truth be told....
jimscarver: I WAS FLYING
jimscarver: lol
David: for real i always wanted to fly for real
jimscarver: not objectively real
David: <smile>
jimscarver: been out to www.newciv.ord yet?
David: not yet
jimscarver: www.newciv.org
David: but i will count on it <smile>
jimscarver: i expect we will find more synergies there, and the new system they have is nice.
jimscarver: we should add wokiwold as an organization, etc. etc. etc. connect, connect, connect.
jimscarver: why settle for 7 when you can have 100 monkeys
jimscarver: for exponencial growth approximating a singularity
jimscarver: perhaps seven is enough to insure success.
David: it seams 7 is an easy number to replicate
jimscarver: flying is easier if you leave your body
David: agreed and just as fun as real flying
David: the body seems to stubbornllly addhear to the concept of gravity
David: synergy of seven reproducing itself exponentially
jimscarver: glad you didn't say "force" of gravity, there is none, the earth just sucks (zpe).
David: lol my language is being edited by the Information Theory
David: gravity is an abstraction that lives in our mind no?
jimscarver: only 2 links each makes 105
David: that make for some amazing changes
jimscarver: it is the shape of the electro magnetic information universe, involving all participants mindless or not.
jimscarver: it is an abstraction of the cosmic conciousness of which our minds and bodies are part
David: I was just talking about this very thing with a couple of friends i meet with periodically
jimscarver: we are a very long way from mental control of gravity i expect.
David: i expect your right
jimscarver: there are our shared realities where we can fly when no one else is watching. the do have a reality too.
jimscarver: they call it mass hysteria.
jimscarver: lol, but it is real locally....
jimscarver: guess you are bummed about not being able to fly by controlling gravity.
David: sometimes
jimscarver: don't dispair, you can always grow wings
David: there are many ways to overcome gravity . . . our atmosphere gives us a medium for one of them
David: maybe the earths magnetic field could be another? . . . ? . . ?
David: pure uneducated speculation . . . . <sounding like drone> its all ellectron exlusion events
jimscarver: taking an airplane of magnoplane is cheating
David: why?
jimscarver: you do get it i think
David: my HS physics teacher told me that the electromagnetic concept is much more powerful than gravity
jimscarver: well, flying without a flying machine woulf be the coolest.
David: yes by far
David: that would be majik . . .
jimscarver: indeed, and now you know there is no force of gravity at all, just lost event space between objects.
David: there could be all sorts of emergent "forces" that classic physics would consider "novel"
jimscarver: and gravity effect is inversely proportional to distance, so given short enough distance can be emmense, in theory.
jimscarver: there are no forces
David: gravity is just a fancy label we put on the experience of loss of space
David: space itself is another fancy label
jimscarver: info communication of state change information
jimscarver: only
jimscarver: space is zpe, distance measures our causal independence.
David: ZPE ?
jimscarver: all the energy from the early universe we cant see as it is the lowest to compare against, hence, zero point energy.
jimscarver: it is HUGE, 175 giga-electron volts density.
jimscarver: it is what space is made of. very very old electron exclusion events.
David: is it like an ocean in which the planets and stars and all other complex systems swim?
jimscarver: except every event is inderdendent and does not interact as molecules in the sea do, there in no aether of substrate of any fixed number of dimensions that info travels through, the info is the space.
jimscarver: independent
jimscarver: the events are world lines, they define space, they are the same from all directions no matter how fast or slow you think you are going.
David: the info is the space . . . I still need to study this in order to have some sort of intuitive grasp
David: electrons dont move through space . . . collectively they define space
David: or destroy space as the case may be
jimscarver: right.
David: i keep trying to visualize an electron moveing through space until it comes close to another one as if it were a solid object with majical properties of spin and charge
jimscarver: movement is relative, who says who is moving is relative to them, no absolute movement.
David: that is esentially flawed
David: hmm . . . .
jimscarver: well, see, a postron going up is indistigushable from an electron going down. the only thing the electron wants to do it annihlate its positron partner but it is a case of mistaken identity we call an exclusion event.
jimscarver: the state change it receives from the past looks like a hole it can fill with an opposite state change, but the hole was in the past, so the state change wanders into the future till it finds a listener.
David: now time has a discreet resolution right
jimscarver: event time is orderings of events. the orderings can manifest space and or time depending on your relative motion. space manifests time at the speed of light, to the nearest event.
jimscarver: disagreements in time ordering manifest space. each exclusion event has contrary ordering to the participants.
David: your words are creating a fractal GA storm in my mind
David: feels good haaah .. . <in best James Brown>
jimscarver: the angle of your light cone shows what event orderings you see at time, and which you see as space.
jimscarver: and the angle of your dangle is propotional to the hypotinouse of the love triangle.
jimscarver: maybe not...
David: dangle . . . ? <searching google>
David: lol
jimscarver: think of lots of lightes all over the universe flasing at effectively the same instant, the ORDER you see the flashes maps their distance from you.
jimscarver: at the primative event level the ordering is space.
David: it is the order in which my collection of electrons experienc each 'light' in the universe that creates the illusion of space
jimscarver: exactly but it is more than an illusion, it represent an inescapable difference in time.
David: ok i used that term because my understanding of space seems to be flawed at the fundamental level
jimscarver: everything is a clock, space enforces than no one sees any clock going backwards.
jimscarver: space doesn't need to do anything special to enforse that since the tick is gone before the tock is manifest.
jimscarver: all is orderings of events
David: I think i could almost read some of the stuff on [[InfoPhysics]] and get closer to an intuitive grasp
David: maybe the contructs in my mind are sufficiently scrambled
jimscarver: lol
David: contrucks
jimscarver: i am working on a piece, the [[InformationUniverse]] which I hope will help present all this better.
David: our mind is an amazing creature . . . . yes?
jimscarver: yes
David: do you ever wonder where our mind is taking us? . . . . <smile>
jimscarver: no, across the galazy and beyond lol
David: what ever and wherever . .. its all good
jimscarver: indeed, if i knew where all this was going i could just kill myself now.
David: if you ever get a chance read the story of mother earth on Organelle . . . very bueatifull
jimscarver: i will, tnx, we should remember to add links to good stuff whenever we find it... connections are everything.
David: yes very true
jimscarver: lunch time.....
jimscarver: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jimscarver: i archived the moning....
David: cool
jimscarver: morning
jimscarver: anything good last night after i disappeared? got it?
jimscarver: later...
David: i did grab some stuff
David: i ll email ya
so_what00400 joined the room
so_what00400: g'evening
so_what00400 left the room
three''days''left joined the room
three''days''left: ... am i intruding?
David: hello?
three''days''left: hello
David: kinda slow at the moment
David: what r u up 2
three''days''left: trying to find a calmer chat room
David: you found calm <smile>
David: which one did you come from?
three''days''left: several, teen, and some of the music, and featured rooms
three''days''left: skipping around, trying to locate a place where its not dead, but there is not so much animosity floating around
David: ah they can giet crazy
David: yeah i have found it hard to find a good chat room
David: this one is mainly a venus fly trap for ideas
David: do you have any crazy ideas that keep you up at night?
three''days''left: plenty
David: cool
David: what is your fav?
jimscarver: world ends in 3 days?
three''days''left: oh my... that's a tough question, i don't really bother too much with any of my ideas
jimscarver: war starts?
three''days''left: oh, the name eh?
jimscarver: yep
three''days''left: originally i was going to have it as eight days, in honor of the beatles, but it and all the other numbers besides 3 were taken
three''days''left: soo...
three''days''left: brb
David: interesting algorithm to arive at a new chat nic
three''days''left: back
jimscarver: like the tune?
three''days''left: yes, and the Beatles
jimscarver: any requests?
three''days''left: hmm...
three''days''left: one of my fave's is strawberry fields... do either of you enjoy the Beatles?
David: i do eventhough i havnt listened much . . . I just emerged from a very narrow cave of sorts
jimscarver: don't have that one
jimscarver: i love em.
David: i like the sound of the beatles . . . if they came on the scene for the first time today they would be just as new and fresh as they were in the beginning
David: in fact much of the fresh new music on the radio today has a lot in common with the sound they created
David: imho
jimscarver: found it
jac_benny joined the room
jimscarver: my favorite... fool on the hill
jak_benny joined the room
sasa (sasa_m11) joined the room
David: hmm . . did we have twins join th rooom
David: jac benny and jak benny
David: welcome sasa
justnobody03 joined the room
jac_benny: Hello justnobody03.
justnobody03 left the room
David: hey benny
jac_benny: ya
David: watch ya up to .. . . . anything facinating?
jac_benny: or which one
jac_benny: no not really.looking for a good room..
jac_benny: lol
David: are you not related to the other benny?
jak_benny: no
jac_benny: my other half
David: your yin
jimscarver: evil twin?
jac_benny: naw,split person
jac_benny: use him for voice
jac_benny: but nomatter u dont' have it
jimscarver: we got is all
jac_benny: lol..what?
jimscarver: tunes
jimscarver: type
jimscarver: radioactivity
the''real''detroit_juggalo joined the room
David: why is that ?
the''real''detroit_juggalo: did anybody see me wave when i parachuted out of the shuttle just before it blew up?
the''real''detroit_juggalo: come on, somebody must have seen me.
David: nope i missed it
three''days''left left the room
the''real''detroit_juggalo: i was carrying a tile in one hand and an american flag in the other.
the''real''detroit_juggalo: i landed in arkansas somewhere.
the''real''detroit_juggalo left the room
David: benny what is on your mind these days
jac_benny: supper
David: ah
David: yes
David: the necesities and joys of our mortal body
jac_benny: that an have to let dogs out
jak_benny left the room
jac_benny left the room
surkumdev1 joined the room
jimscarver: hi Kum
jimscarver: playing who let the dogs out...
surkumdev1: oh
surkumdev1: i am getting no voice on this end
jimscarver: http://democracymeansyou.com/satire/explainified.htm
jimscarver: you got to turn it on
jimscarver: voice on
surkumdev1: well, the lights are not going up and down
jimscarver: now?
surkumdev1: yes now
David: mine says i am not authorized for voice
for''i''am''not''the_one joined the room
for''i''am''not''the_one: ooo intelligence! '''claps hands'''
David: <looks around in bewilderment> where?
for''i''am''not''the_one: here, here
David: r u sure your not the one?
for''i''am''not''the_one: yes
David: do you go by for or one or notheone
David: <cheeky smile>
for''i''am''not''the_one: i go by fish, actually
surkumdev1: i hate to have 4 messengers
David: cool
for''i''am''not''the_one: <equally cheeky grin>
David: so fish what is on your mind
surkumdev1 left the room
for''i''am''not''the_one: oh, let's see.
David: we want to know because what is on your mind is on our mind
for''i''am''not''the_one: i just had a long intellectual with my cousin about my vegetarian beliefs, which was amusing but rather stressful, so i'm thinkin about that...and i'm thinking about how i'm going to spiffy up my new webpage, and...let's see....i'm thinking about happiness and what the hell it means.
David: i hope surkum comes back i have to run to a meeting
David: happieness
jimscarver: stop thinking about naked woman
David: that is a good one
for''i''am''not''the_one: i'm...not...
jimscarver: oh, never was good with esp....
for''i''am''not''the_one: even though my brother does occasionally accuse me of being a lesbian.
David: lmao
for''i''am''not''the_one: .
David: jim is trying to become one with everthing
for''i''am''not''the_one: oh?
jimscarver: Om.
David: still a few glitches obviously
for''i''am''not''the_one: Om my.
David: lol
jimscarver: if ya don't a first succeed....
David: well i must run for a bit be back in a while
for''i''am''not''the_one: yeah, i tried that once. Didn't work out so great, now i'm just trying to become one, period.
for''i''am''not''the_one: okay, see you in a while then dsiegel
David: me too
David: ok
jimscarver: Kazam You are a period
for''i''am''not''the_one:
for''i''am''not''the_one: My dreams fulfilled
for''i''am''not''the_one: How can I ever thank you?
for''i''am''not''the_one: '''revels in her dottiness'''
jimscarver: lol, no prob, glad i could help, first time that worked
for''i''am''not''the_one: hehe
for''i''am''not''the_one: for me too
for''i''am''not''the_one: so, how's the oneness going?
jimscarver: would be great it i wasnt so schizoid...
for''i''am''not''the_one: haha
for''i''am''not''the_one: i don't believe in schizoidity.
for''i''am''not''the_one: i don't think anyone genuinely does want human company and love
jimscarver: www.wikiworld.com is becomming a collective intelligence
for''i''am''not''the_one: '''taps her fingers to Joni Mitchell'''
for''i''am''not''the_one: oooo
jimscarver: what else do people want? of course they want that
for''i''am''not''the_one: schizoids supposedly don't
for''i''am''not''the_one: yeah...everyone wants to be loved. what they don't realize is what they REALLY want is love themselves, and they're trying to use other people to obtain that.
jimscarver: it is thier dick that wants to do all the chics.
for''i''am''not''the_one: oop, my text overran yours. what did you say?
jimscarver: it is their penus that wants to do all the chicks, all they want is love and affection.
for''i''am''not''the_one: yeah
for''i''am''not''the_one: and by the way, i never thought i'd correct someone on this, but it's penis, not penus
jimscarver: men are pigs.
for''i''am''not''the_one: '''sigh''' they're not.
for''i''am''not''the_one left the room
for''i''am''not''the_one joined the room
for''i''am''not''the_one: i'm back, sorry
for''i''am''not''the_one: my computer funked out.
for''i''am''not''the_one: men are NOT pigs...it's just really hard for women to understand the way they think..sometimes that ends up getting them hurt. least that's what i tell myself
David: men are heros in a pig shell
for''i''am''not''the_one: hehe
for''i''am''not''the_one: men, like any human, can be heros or pigs by choice
for''i''am''not''the_one: you two guys or girls?
jimscarver: yes
jimscarver: guys...
for''i''am''not''the_one: because if you're both guys maybe i should shut up about guys...after all, it's two against one.
for''i''am''not''the_one: i thought so.
for''i''am''not''the_one: oo, it's my song
jimscarver: we are settles older guys
jimscarver: i got grandkids
for''i''am''not''the_one: i'll be right back, i have to go dance around the house
jimscarver: settled
for''i''am''not''the_one: '''pant''' ok, back
for''i''am''not''the_one: grandkids? cute.
for''i''am''not''the_one: i want grandkids.
for''i''am''not''the_one: kids are too hard
for''i''am''not''the_one: i used to think i really wanted to be a mom, and i do, but...well, for one thing i've taken care of some babies and DAMN are they heavy, not to mention fussy. I don't know if I have that kind of stamina...and plus, now that I'm a teenager I'm realizing how incredibly hard it is to be a teenager's parent, because I get SO annoyed at the stupidest things in both of my parents, there's no way to win for them
for''i''am''not''the_one: brothah that was a long post.
jimscarver: i had 5 of my own kids.
for''i''am''not''the_one: sorry bout that.
for''i''am''not''the_one: braver man than i.
for''i''am''not''the_one: .
for''i''am''not''the_one: cool, i just PMed myself
for''i''am''not''the_one: i tried ignoring myself but that didn't work
jimscarver: lol
for''i''am''not''the_one: try it, it's fun
jimscarver: my boss is buggen me, sorry, brb.
for''i''am''not''the_one: okie
for''i''am''not''the_one: hema '''hugs'''
for''i''am''not''the_one: ugh. my brother and cousin are watching an Angel DVD in the next room and they keep screaming things at me.
for''i''am''not''the_one: they like Angel WAAAAAY more than is normal or healthy.
for''i''am''not''the_one left the room
Luthor (dymolex) joined the room
jimscarver: x
Love''is''Chemistry (t4fast) joined the room
t4fast left the room
surkumdev1 joined the room
abdellah19 joined the room
abdellah19 left the room
David: <reading above> isnt life grand . . .
surkumdev1: mathml ??
David: [[KooMar]] why are you hiding in the closet?
surkumdev1: closet??
David: come out in the light <smile>
surkumdev1: ha
Nappy (tryme920) joined the room
surkumdev1: hey nappy
surkumdev1: dave, if i were gay, my life would be much much easier
surkumdev1: unfortunately, i am not
David: lol
David: how hard would it be to set up a personal version of wiki just for me
David: is there an implementation that is MS friendly?
David: I supose i need to get busy on building my linux web server
surkumdev1: you could probably try setting up php over ur IIS
surkumdev1: there are versions of php that can do that i think
David: cool
David: then i need a data backend
surkumdev1: SQL comes for free
surkumdev1: personal edition of SQL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jimscarver: C is becomming a language mostly for imbedded systems
David: i need some project that will be a reward and a carrot to motivate me to take on a new language
David: so i should jump into php or C++
jimscarver: php and then java
surkumdev1: c++ is basically for background processing
surkumdev1: system programming/mathematical programming
David: i heard java supports first class objects?
surkumdev1: etc
surkumdev1: is good
surkumdev1: C#
surkumdev1: i like it better than java
jimscarver: don't use that kind of language here kum
surkumdev1: well, there are open implementations of .NET
David: I saw that comming
jimscarver: there may be children listening
jimscarver: token open
David: <looks back at kum then jim with innocent look on face>
surkumdev1: just because it is from microsoft , does not make it crap
jimscarver: more ms trickery
David: <looks back at kum>
surkumdev1: yes C#/.NET is an open standard
David: i hate it when you argue
surkumdev1: http://www.go-mono.com/
jimscarver: at least we should argue about something worthwhile, like physics.
David: lol
David: php sounds like a good bet then java
jimscarver: the open source version lack important shit like persistance.
David: at least java skill apply in MS world and the real world both
jimscarver: i like the way you put that....
David: ok searching for PHP tutorials on net
David: oooh first in need a dev environment
surkumdev1: c# is easier
surkumdev1: and has attributes
David: <ducks>
David: vb is easy in its own domain
surkumdev1: yes
jimscarver: C# is for babies
surkumdev1: in my opnion, no language is better than another language
David: i think java cant be that far off
David: lol
surkumdev1: each of them have their own purpose
jimscarver: The purpose of C# is for MS to dominate the galaxy
surkumdev1: could be
surkumdev1: but for my own purposes
David: thats the nature of the object class we call corporation
David: [[CorporationNature]]
surkumdev1: MS will be replaced like any other company
David: a specialized version of [[HumanCollectiveNature]]
David: or [[CollectiveHumanNature]]
surkumdev1: it's only a matter of time
David: step 1 Install Linux on newly built PC
surkumdev1: jim, MS makes things easy for people
surkumdev1: and programers
surkumdev1: so does Apple
David: Step 2 Download Development Environment
David: Step 3 Find and follow basic PHP tutorials
David: Step 4 Build basic wiki app
David: Step 5 [[ObjectWiki]]
surkumdev1: MS will collapse onto its own weight
surkumdev1: that's what i except to him
surkumdev1: that's what i except to happen
surkumdev1: coroporations, once they become large, they become bloated and nothing really gets done
surkumdev1: because they lose incentive
surkumdev1: almost no new inventions come out of coroporations
surkumdev1: this is true
David: each indivudual should feel like their contributions really matter
surkumdev1: i think, in economics, there is a term of this
surkumdev1: yeah
surkumdev1: moreover, coroporations usally work on the hierachy of butt kissing
David: a large co needs to be made up of small groups of engaged entreupanures
surkumdev1: i think that is how microsoft makes their teams and stuff
surkumdev1: and hp does it too i think
David: of course all should be interconnected
David: i want to see a system that facilitates that kind of collaboration
surkumdev1: dont u think that jim?
David: one where like minded and like skilled individuals naturally find each other but stay highly connected to the whole system
surkumdev1: yeah
surkumdev1: but people do not always get along
surkumdev1: from my personal experience
David: the facilitating system should account for that
David: i know of a way to virtually stop all agressive trafic violations
surkumdev1: how?
David: the same concept could be applied toward colaboration
David: use skinners law
surkumdev1: oh
David: give anyone the ability to report a car that seems to be driving agressivly
David: the data would not be reported to the police but to the insurance agencies
surkumdev1: ok,
surkumdev1: what if people who do not like you file random reports
David: an algorithm could be developed to filter out these people and make thier imput less important
surkumdev1: how so?
surkumdev1: think of the enron scandel
surkumdev1: where people who were the most trusted, turned out to be the worst
David: apples to oranges
David: the most trusted in enron were trusted by humans who base thier decisions on subjective factors
surkumdev1: well, i am saying , you cannot put trust into an algorithm
jimscarver: you can play at wikiworld dave, or some other domain on xanthus.net
David: thanks jim
David: yes you can kum if you understand the algorhtm and its limitations
surkumdev1: think of credit card companies that phone you everyday and asking you to make the next payment
David: if some one randomly reports a driver cause they dont like the color of the car and they made a habit of it
surkumdev1: and most of them lost their money to big big frauds like eron/worldcom/etc
jimscarver: i got people that don't like wiki format and want to use simple text format and html
surkumdev1: credit card companies have algorithms too
jimscarver: support for multiple formats is a nice little project
David: hmm . . . that would be
jimscarver: see the way they build trust communities at www.newciv.org
David: thank you
surkumdev1: hierachy is in many ways important
David: facilitating the calculation of good participants ones that constantly add value by their imput and bad participants the ones that subtract value
David: that seems to be a very solvable problem and necesary for good collaboration facilitation
surkumdev1: well, dave, its is really difficult to tell who the good ones are and the bad ones are
surkumdev1: for example, jim does not like C# because it is from MS
jimscarver: i've been told people would take to wiki much more readily if they could use plain text and html. It may be true....
surkumdev1: its not that C# is necessarily a bad language or that jim is a bad person
David: the system would rely on moderators (everyone is a moderator) and the moderation of modorators
Mr.T (mr''t''234) joined the room
Mr.T: there yawn
surkumdev1: hey Mr.T
David: i was thinking of a way to do this using bio feed back
Mr.T: huh?
surkumdev1: think of USENET sci.physics where everybody is allowed to post
David: if i got excited by what i read the right kind of device should be able to pick up on that fact by scaning my bio signals
surkumdev1: the signal to noise ratio is so high
surkumdev1: oh
David: yes the participants are not rated
mr''t''234 left the room
surkumdev1: you know what i am getting at?
David: if a good user posted quality material all the time each reader would react favorabally to that input wich could be automatically recorded by biofeedback input
surkumdev1: oh
David: then that good users rating goes up and any imput apears at the top of the list
surkumdev1: so, jim, u were saying...
David: slashdot has a similiar process
surkumdev1: yeah
David: problem is the users dont allways volunteer rating information
surkumdev1: yes
surkumdev1: i mean, yeah
David: and the few that do can easily skew the results
surkumdev1: ok
jimscarver: eies made it easy to collectively catagorize items, we also had scales for desirability, feasability, etc.
surkumdev1: dave, you have to take into account that people will only do things if they can benifit from them
David: i think content should be rated by the ammount of ideas it generates
David: exactly
surkumdev1: a diifficult rating system?
surkumdev1: how are you going to accomplish that?
surkumdev1: then again, you need to implement this to know if it really works
David: if an artical in scientific journals creats a big stir there is a word we use
pplteapot joined the room
surkumdev1: ok
David: seminal ? yes?
pplteapot: Hello all
surkumdev1: hey ppl
pplteapot: Just checking in with you tonight
jimscarver: in newciv, trust level is part of your buddy list, who you trust and who trusts you are available.
David: in wiki you can look at back links to see if some one referes to that page
jimscarver: hi ppl
surkumdev1: so, pple what u upto?
David: count the number of back links to determine what kind of hub it is
surkumdev1: yeah
pplteapot: Well, not newciv or wiki Am I missing out?
pplteapot: You all really are into this, right?
David: wiki or collective
jimscarver: could be, if you are into collaboration
pplteapot: I just like the name of your room & like to see who's on board
pplteapot: Nothing to contribute other than a friendly hello & enjoy your evening
surkumdev1: yeah
jimscarver: check out www.wikiWorld.com
pplteapot: Jim, will it be a pleasant surprise?
jimscarver: there is something there for everyone
surkumdev1: http://www.wikiworld.com/wiki/index.php/Koomar%20Tries%20to%20Do%20QM
pplteapot: some of these websites are ugly.
pplteapot: LOL sur
pplteapot: You all will have me knowing more than I ever wanted to
jimscarver: we don't try to be pretty, perhaps we should...
David: format does have a function
surkumdev1: there are pretty pages
David: I like the new home page
surkumdev1: http://www.wikiworld.com/wiki/index.php/Koomar%20The%20Foolish%20Romantic
pplteapot: I meant ugly as in "nasty", uh...... you know
David: ah -- not nasty
surkumdev1: but function is more important than format in many instances
pplteapot: Why are there so few of you in here?
pplteapot: Sur, you are so right
David: looks more like a science lab than anything else
surkumdev1: because we do not cyber ?
David: this chat room is a playground for playfull ideas
surkumdev1: yup
pplteapot: David, very good
pplteapot: Sur, was that a yup I just saw???? LOL
pplteapot: If I was smart enough I would try to contribute. I can appreciate, however
surkumdev1: http://www.wikiworld.com/wiki/index.php/Koomar%20The%20Foolish%20Romantic
surkumdev1: here's a format
surkumdev1: but we do not need it
David: if i could enter your domain ppl i would not be smart enough
surkumdev1: i am not that smart either
pplteapot: Well, all the power that Sur doesn't claim
jimscarver: we are all idiot savaunts
pplteapot: OK, I'll stop scaring you all & go check out Sur's website he'
pplteapot: s suggested for me.
pplteapot: Jim, been there done that - please excuse the phrase, but it's so true
pplteapot: Are you 3 good friends?
surkumdev1: i guess
surkumdev1: we are like buddies
David: kum this was what i was trying to get at
pplteapot: Jim/David, don't leave Sur out there hanging in the wind
David: sounds kinda technical
David: teapot we are working on collaboration systems
pplteapot: Are you all voicing, because I don't hear a thing?
jimscarver: we have only known eachother for a couple weeks but are very close already
mazakry joined the room
pplteapot: OK, don't let me get in the way of progress. Name it after me LOL
David: lol
David: cool
David: removing the barriers that keep us from realizing idea synergy
pplteapot: Hit you all tomorrow. Remember to tell Sur you all are his friends/buddies. I think you are
David: good ideas should be propigated to any mind that is ready to advance them and develope them to be further propigated
pplteapot: Keep a good thing going????
mazakry: .oO (why do I feel like an intellectual cul-de-sac?)
pplteapot: Maz, don't leave. I am
David: yes let the idea evolve and grow in a comunity of like minded minds
pplteapot: Bye
pplteapot: Tell me bye
mazakry: '''turns Jim down'''
mazakry: bye
pplteapot: That's called being polite.
jimscarver: thanks for stoping by
mazakry: I wondered
jimscarver: see you ppl.
David: cu all later
jimscarver: i turned it off, ppl couln't hear anything
pplteapot left the room
nick''@''nite (nicknack765) joined the room
surkumdev1: hey nick
nick''@''nite: wasssuppp
surkumdev1: http://www.wikiworld.com/KooMar/Family%20Picture.jpg
mazakry: so where is the intelligence?
David: its all around us
surkumdev1: picture that i corrected
mazakry: I left mine in my other trousers
David: can be hard to contact though
jimscarver: burned out
surkumdev1: http://www.wikiworld.com/KooMar/Jane/Guide/About.html#
mazakry: what kind of intelligence are we talking about?
jimscarver: chat and working all day left me with fried brains
jimscarver: we are information physicist wannabes
mazakry: better cut back on the working
David: seritonin starvation
mazakry: and drinking Sunkist doesn't help
David: hmm. . .
mazakry: information physicists '''pauses and waits for a thought - nil'''
David: i work in a juice production plan and we used to make sunkist pure
jimscarver: we have been having BIG fun at www.WikiWorld.com and are experimenting with this chat thing.
nicknack765 left the room
mazakry: I have a feeling my contribution to this room may be detrimental... I am a professional idiot
David: me too
mazakry: and no... that doesn't mean I am a journist
surkumdev1: so am i
David: i just learn new languages easily
David: like the language called information physics
jimscarver: if we were rich they would call us excentric...
surkumdev1: mazaky, everybody has the right to make mistakes
surkumdev1: they have to learn to make progress from it
mazakry: I don't just have the right Sur.. I took out a patent on it
David: hmm . . . and they wouldnt put us in the loony bin either
jimscarver: those who seek truth must admit that all they know is wrong.
David: maby we should get rich before we get too loud
jimscarver: lol
mazakry: << still doesn't know what he is doing in this lifeboat.. but at least he can make good coffee
David: especially after reading some of [[SeveLambs]] stuff
jimscarver: kum, your pages are more complicated than mine,i going to have to add a summary for non-mathimaticians
David: Jim . . . all we need to do is solve one big problem and then we can spend our time on the important stuff
David: like contacting the universe
jimscarver: ok, lets manifest the collective intelligence
mazakry: can you put lots of pictures in it Jim... for people like me... if there is such a thing
David: maz that is a bril idea
jimscarver: yes. i've been planning more pictures...
mazakry: I tried contacting the universe once and all i got was "If your are trying to reach God press 1 now... If you are..." etc
David: develop a way of codify ing math that is more parallel to the way our mind naturally works
mazakry: .oO (mind? works?)
David: hmmm
mazakry: << feels like the control subject
mazakry: I am not getting any smarter am I?
David: we all are by your presense
mazakry: I have that effect... everyone gets smarter when I am around
jimscarver: indeed, if we are experimenting with you, you have rights under the rights of human subjects act and we need a signed release form.
mazakry: .oO ( a vague memory of a reference to "lowest common denominator" creeps in )
David: thats sounds like a quote from [[StarPiliots]] definition of wealth
jimscarver: result of 25 years research...
surkumdev1: mazaky, if you make other people do your homework, you will always get smater than you
mazakry: um... how do you recreate the way the mind naturally works when its fairly widely admitted that we don't really know for certain how it does?
jimscarver: in thorey, WE be more intelligent with you than without you.
surkumdev1: my dad tells me that if you want to keep someone dumb, always help them
jimscarver: you can experience how it works in meditation.
David: WE just had a meme convergence
mazakry: I can't help but feel essential now Jim
surkumdev1: mazaky, if you make other people do your homework, they will always get smater than you*
David: trying to get others to do home work is hard as it is requiring more complex skills than the homework itself
mazakry: Well that makes my dog a genius Sur... after all he actually digests it
David: cheaters are the guiniesus
jimscarver: but it takes smarts to get others to do your homework
surkumdev1: there are people, who are suckers for a challenge
David: lol
surkumdev1: for example, #physics on USENET
surkumdev1: EFNet
David: anyone read "diomand age"
surkumdev1: nope
mazakry: << the bunny in the race for intelligence
David: it was a very cool sci fi novel based on the nano tech idea
jimscarver: i'll have to go there, i desparately need help with the math in my binary harmonic cosmology theory.
David: but it featured a cool model for collective intelligence
mazakry: .oO (huh?)
jimscarver: tell us more
jimscarver: dave
mazakry: best thing about brain-farts is that no matter how big it is it doesn't smell (5 Star Observation.. three pats on the head)
David: one of the nano engineers put together a distributed information system that was comprised of very small machines that would attatch themselves to the nurons of a human
David: they would link up in a human and process what they could but then they needed to communicate with other nets hosted by other ppl
jimscarver: lol, good point, go ahead, let them loose...
David: they did this through fluid exchange (thats the gross part)
jimscarver: maz
mazakry: why do I think your are going a round about way of talk about sex Dave
David: when a final build of the system was ready all the parts would need to converge in one host
David: well that is an analogy for the way things acctually work
jimscarver: the last scifi i really enjoyed was "Stranger in a Strange Land", little patience for fantacy reading for some reason once i got old.
David: ideas float in a mind and link up with other ideas within same mind
mazakry: '''frowns and applies wet towels as he trys to think''' but but... why do you need an analogy of an actuality?
David: untill it reaches an equalibrium of sorts
David: a guinious is one where all these ideas reach a convergence point and come togehter
jimscarver: in Science and Religion analogy is our only understanding.
David: to form the foundation of a complettly new thought domain
David: ok </end rant>
David: did any one track?
dtheyamaha joined the room
David: im saying stuff we already know i supose
David: it is becoming more clear that we all share one mind
mazakry:
dtheyamaha left the room
David: and that our bodies and roads and houses and power lines are all part of that mind
mazakry: Someone isn't sharing... someone has taken off with mine completely
David: you can have it back and more maz . . . <smile>
David: btw thanks for the thought bubble idea
mazakry: I use my mind (when I have it)
jimscarver: one being objective (science) and the other (religion), subjective, i guess the value of fantacy is exploring possibilities, and fulfilling animal desires.
mazakry:
David: never quite got till now
David: .oO( What a cool trick this is)
mazakry: you guys wanna hear a thought I thunk when I was about 12... its been a foundation for me
David: yes
David: .oO(i can think to myself outloud)
jimscarver: weezallears
mazakry: It is possible simply to write it off as symantics but anyway...
mazakry: I call it my theory of "I"
David: zero and infinity are same thing
mazakry: and it was a as simple as this.
surkumdev1: ???
jimscarver: well...
mazakry: my mind
mazakry: I refer to myself and my parts
mazakry: my ideas
mazakry: my feelings
mazakry: my this and that
mazakry: so... what is this thing that I am that is the owner... the manipulator of all these elements
jimscarver: nothing
mazakry: that is without (outside of them) that is can know that is NOT simply them or all of them but possessing OF them
jimscarver: a synthesis of those things.
mazakry: No... not nothing.. because I know that too
mazakry: I am more than the sum of my parts because I can know that
mazakry: I can discard or lose parts of myself without losing myself
mazakry: so... what am I... but "I"
mazakry: I am
mazakry: whittle a person back as far as you can go and you'll find you can go on forever
jimscarver: you are not tied to any particular atoms...
David: yes! that is the basic question WE explore
David: i am the emergent synergy of my parts which is much greater than the sum of my parts
mazakry: having thought about this... I began to think that we are more than 50 - 50 divine (for want of a better explanation) and mortal
jimscarver: each of us is a part of the WE
mazakry: The first reference I could find for "I am" is of course scriptural
David: how do you see devine?
David: that is a great Hebrew word with much scope of meaning
jimscarver: spiritual
mazakry: if you follow
jimscarver: spirit-mind-body
mazakry: goes back to Collective Intelligence/Conciousness etc
surkumdev1: side track: what do u guys think of 'going on a date with my valentine Jacky Mayata batin.'
mazakry: I think maybe we are all part ro parts of that source
jimscarver: i'll go
David:
jimscarver: Om.
David: lol
mazakry: '''passes out from the effort of stringing thoughts together'''
David: I AM that which causes all that which is to be
mazakry: I AM
David: from the Hebrew as i remember it
surkumdev1: david, u jewish?
mazakry: anyway... I always liked knowing that
David: I AM THE SOURCE
jimscarver: nice job maz that is the essence of our quest, to discover the being that we are part of.
David: umm . . . yes <to kumar>
David: exactly <to jim>
David: id say you fit right in
surkumdev1: my quest is find out what my quest is
David: just ignore all the info physics stuff like me
jimscarver: if he recovers...
mazakry: Now that makes sense Sur
David: your more than welcome any time you like to hang out
David: but the quest of WE is to know WE as WE
mazakry: << the crayon wielding socio physicist
jimscarver: WE cannot know the quest of We until we know WE.
mazakry: .. and part-time coffee gopher
surkumdev1: oh
David: im not natianally jewish
David: or genetically
jimscarver: milk, no sugar maz, tnx.
surkumdev1: u converted?
surkumdev1: oh
David: but i do subscribe to large parts of jewish culture
mazakry: '''boils a kettle'''
surkumdev1: oh
David: ok that doesnt make me jewish
mazakry: .oO ( when its clean I'll boil the water)
surkumdev1: i am a buddhist wanna be
mazakry: So do Christians David
David: but i appreciate jewish customs and stuff . . .
surkumdev1: it appeals to my lifestyle
David: according to Jesus all that belive in him are adopted into the original hebrew family
jimscarver: my dads mother was jewish but independent of that I am jewish as a christian as are muslems
mazakry: I would be a Buddist but I find their protests a little too hot to handle
mazakry: Well then I am an adoptive Jew too
surkumdev1: protests?
mazakry: the flaming Buddist
jimscarver: i am a buddhist wanabe also
David: "all is as Allah wills"
David: that became even more apparent last night
jimscarver: i was sort of a zen master in my youth but have not maintained the disipline.
mazakry: Wanna be Buddists practice the art of Now and Zen aha '''wiping away tear'''
David: i need to learn more about Now and Zen
David: there is a path to Now through christian scripture but it seams obscure to me
jimscarver: Tao is the path
surkumdev1: it's a form of atheism
surkumdev1: Buddha is not supposed to be a God
mazakry: Buddha is a laid back dude
dsiegel_spkn left the room
David (dsiegel_spkn) joined the room
mazakry: speaking of Now tho
David: jim save log pls
David: i just got booted
mazakry: you all heard the description of Now being where eternity is
David: no but i have heard similar
mazakry: past future and the present
David: that rings true to me
mazakry: and now is where we always are
mazakry: always will be?
mazakry: I suppose from a personal reference point
jimscarver: all religions kum have what you call atheism, it is culture more than belief for most, buddism is a path to contentment independent of belief, yet buddists generally are very God loving.
David: dont get jim started on event orderings
David: we all live in our own personal light cone
mazakry: don't worry Dave... its in the past now... er.. past now?
mazakry: mine isn't a cone... its like a rhomboid
surkumdev1: but it's a personafication of the universe than anything
jimscarver: in the Zen we are one and without time.
David: jim have you syntisized Zen and electron exlusion events?
David: and is "spirit" an emergent manifistation of elecron exlusion events?
mazakry: Fact: we are all looking at the same piece of paper and it is green
David: well on that note
David: i must fly
surkumdev1: ok guys
mazakry: Perception: It is light green, dark green, plain green
David: great chatting
jimscarver: it is not a crime to personify your car God as long as you don't make images of him, that tee's him off
mazakry: '''goes back to brain-farting and drooling'''
jimscarver: lol
mazakry: Jesus built my Hotrod
jimscarver: car or God
David: ask [[SevenLambs]] to get a Wiki email
David: I want to ask him a few things
jimscarver: he never told me he worked on cars, jeeze
David: never mind ill get it on his webby
David: remember this chat . . . catch ya all latter
jimscarver: k
mazakry: see ya Dae
jimscarver: yike i gotta go too
mazakry: dave even
jimscarver: it's been fun, great meeting you maz.
mazakry: later Jim
mazakry: '''can feel the walls closing in'''
David: maz come back soon
dsiegel_spkn left the room
