DevilInLaughter
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If happiness comes at the price of robbing ones motivation, is it wrong? If happiness comes in a form that precludes one from contributing to society, should it be avoided? Is it wrong to exist in happiness among the world's turmoil and not lift a finger?
Did(Does) evolution demand a level of discontent from humanity? Do we owe the current success of the species, and our civilization, to a sometimes irrational drive to solve problems and conquer nature?
Would communism have worked if humans were more content?
Do our dwindling resources on this planet call for a paradigm shift towards a more fundamentally satisfied, less consumption-driven lifestyle, wherein adequate salaries are the goal, instead of ever-larger salaries. Wouldn't the environment benefit if so many Americans were happy without their off-road vehicles that seem only to be used for asphalt-bound travels? Is it wrong to attribute global warming, even in part, to our unsatisfied nature?
With all this in mind, should the ZenState be a goal of the environmental lobbies? What societal mechanisms are in place to advance human contentedness? Was the medieval Catholic Church an example of repression through conditioned contentedness? What societal mechanisms exist that perpetuate discontent and the drive to consume?
Is the drive to consume equivalent to discontent?
---Is it wrong to exist in happiness among the world's turmoil and not lift a finger?---
This is the question.
A friend and I just discussed his political ambivalence and came up with that question. He is trying to do something with his life- chasing his dreams- his pursuit seems unrelated to the political and socio-economic problems in the world. He doesn't believe he can help- he doesn't care, therefore, he doesn't think it wise to do anything. Some people join the Peace Corps, some run for office, some contribute editorials to the newspaper. These people are trying to affect a greater change and make their voice heard and felt. Lots of other people can't be bothered, but maybe they make their spouse happy, or are their mother's only consistent visitor, or they keep a school bathroom clean and the steps free of ice. Maybe they just keep their co-workers laughing or even just smiling once in a while. As long as each person does some good they have a right to happiness.
---Did(Does) evolution demand a level of discontent from humanity? Do we owe the current success of the species, and our civilization, to a sometimes irrational drive to solve problems and conquer nature? ---
Absolutely. Contentedness is unnatural.
---JamesJr
I had a conversation with someone about suicide once. I said, that even if I wanted to, I couldn't do it knowing that I would leave behind some people who would be crushed by my suicide. She replied by then asking me if I have an obligation to live, just because someone else will be upset, when I don't really want to. I sometimes think about this, and run around in circles in my living room at the same time. Until I make myself dizzy with confusion and decide not to think about it anymore. But it comes down to something similar here. Are you, obligated to do anything really? There are certains things which I find disgusting in people, but it is only because I've experienced the effects of those disgusting traits. In reality, how can anything be wrong. As far as making the world a better place, notice that people who stand out, long to stand out. They long for things, they are discontent. I want to make the world a better place, for other people, not because I really give a shit about anyone or anything, but only because it would make me feel better knowing that I helped someone. Happiness is about YOU, not about anything or anyone else. People who live for others rarely find happiness, and if they do, it is only because they happen to have come into circumstances that do something for them. I think that by recognizing this, I can do good for other people, in a way that feeds my own neurosis.
I have more to say about this, but I gotta go meet greg for dinner.
-JaLong
Constant contentedness IS unnatural. It does not motivate any real action, it encourages a static existence, which we can easily lose sense of ourselves in. Discontent makes us realize our individuality and react in action of self preservation and perseverence.
“I think, therefore I am is the statement of an intellectual who underrates toothaches. I feel, therefore I am is a truth much more universally valid, and it applies to everything that’s alive. My self does not differ substantially from yours in terms of its thought. Many people, few ideas: we all think more or less the same, and we exchange, borrow, steal thoughts from one another. However, when someone steps on my foot, only I feel the pain. The basis of the self is not thought but suffering, which is the most fundamental of all feelings. While it suffers, not even a cat can doubt its unique and uninterchangeable self. In intense suffering the world disappears and each of us is alone with his self. Suffering is the university of egocentrism.” Immortality p. 200
Discontent is a fundamental aspect of evolution. Discontent is also the pith that fuels changes in status quo. In my opinion it is those that feign contentment about the current state of affairs that are more to blame for the troubles dominating the word right now than those that are discontent. We may think we are content, and therefore we take no actions, we make no changes and we continue at our pace until we achieve self defeat.
If the question is is it wrong to be unmotivated and unburdeoned by turmoil as long as you are happy?, I would have to question in what circumsatnce that would really be genuine. There is a certain level of turmoil we need to process and absorb in order to deal with anything at all, to funtion in the given society or amoungst individual people, even maintain balance within yourself. Its reality. To what level we take on the responsibiliy of burden and to what pursuits we choose to lift our fingers to tackle it is entirely relative. I will say that there is no person that I know of that truly exists happily doing nothing in a state of turmoil. It defys instinct. It would mean giving up, surrendering, or building a denial based on either the fear of turmoil or the fear of failure to manipulate it. either way its a cop out. Contributing to society comes in many different outlets, some less obvious than others, it does not have to be enlisting in the army, or becoming an environmental activist. But one has to contribute something in order to achieve a true sense of value.
“The heaviest of burdens crushes us, we sink beneath it, it pins us to the ground. But in the love poetry of every age, the woman longs to be weighed down by the man’s body. The heaviest of burdens is therefore simultaneously an image of life’s most intense fulfillment. The heavier the burden, the closer our lives come to the earth, the more real and truthful they become. Conversely, the absolute absence of a burden causes man to be lighter than air, to soar into the heights, take leave of the earth and his earthly being, and become only half real, his movements as free as they are insignificant. What then shall we choose? Weight or lightness?” The Unbearable Lightness of Being p. 5
It's easy to see that discontent is what leads people to get things done. It might also be said that one's level of accomplishment is loosely correlated with one's level of discontent, though I can thing of a few counterexamples. However, it's not always good to get something done. Al Qaeda is an organization full of mightily discontented souls, and, sadly, they have accomplished a lot. In our discontent with the success of the al Qaeda, we the world have gone to great lengths to defeat them, an effort that continues. Discontent is not the mother of good or bad, but it is surely the mother of deeds.
Is there any other impetus to deeds aside from discontent? Isn't discontent equally resultant from all our drives? Isn't any drive, not quite yet fulfilled, a form of discontent? Does a mother give her newborn her breast because of disontent with the baby's state of hunger? Is all action rooted in discontent?
-OutRadulous
So the actions resulting from discontent can create positive or negative outcomes, depending on who you ask. Doesnt really matter, discontent still is. it motivates us to action, it motivates counter actions. You can say terrorism is bad, and war is bad, but you can also say letting your country be ravished and overtaken without a fight against it is bad too. My point was only to say that discontent is condusive to survival, its precludes the grand fight, it could very well be the only bouy of evolution and perseverence, and from the perspective of evolution, the drive to survive means we take action against a situation that threatens us and act in a way that alters our given situation rather than just sit and stagnate. There are certainly instances where that may backfire on you- war is a prime example. People can be discontent and choose to take a less than optimun action, or they can take an optimum one, or they can land somewhere in between. But if they dont do anything, what becomes of them? ummm nothing. and we all want something, dont we?
Do we? I am generally happy, from day to day. Content. Although I do have my darker days.
And I have done nothing in turmoil. Not out of fear, but because until things became set, there was no point worrying about them. That was not stupidity, merely economy of patience and energy. When you are surrounded in a ring of fire, running will only bring you to the edge of the fire.
Most of the time, when people do things out of discontent, they end up in a worse situation then they started. That's due to forethought, no planning. But sometimes, it works out to be better then you started. That's why you do not change things when you are content. You will only worsen them. 'Don't fix what ain't broke.'
However, there are those that do act even though they are content. They are generally acting to preserve what they have though. The possibility of discontent motivates that behavior.
---StarPilot
Dear StarPilot, look back in your life. do you feel you have accomplished nothing? or perhaps a better question would be: When you look at your greatest accomplishments in life, can you really say they came to you without a struggle?
I've accomplished many things. Some were certainly easier to do then others. As far as which is the greatest, my opinion of that changes with my life experience, time to reflect, and mood. ---StarPilot
'HA HA HO HO HE HE'==== Existance is change, change is both destruction and creation, indeed creation will defeat the nothing, but without the dark side of the forse creation could not be, and as Truth evolves, stale truth manifests lies. 'HO HO HE HE HA HA'. -- Lucifer in de-skyse
==
Heed not the promise of darkness, his diamonds are glass.
As death must serve Life, ultimately, so WhiteLies must serve Truth.
Should one choose to follow Truth, PositiveTruth is their happiness and NegativeTruth is their frontier and constant source of motivation. The game of Truth, a moment to choose, a lifetime to master, mastered only briefly, in its state of becomming.
If one is content in their SeaOfLies, may they also be bring some value to this world, not destruction, and not hinder our quest for Truth. --JimScarver
I feel like we are really just dealing with different ways of living, not good or bad, just different. Maybe its how we were brought up and the personalities that develop so differently about the same issue as a result. When someone says living in turmoil and not lifting a finger, i think of one thing: not trying. Backing away from the effort of trying and doing and following through as best you can. i am not thinking of this in terms specific to politics or war, but on any terms at all. The act of doing in itself implies a certain effort, a certain struggle. There are three things my mother repeated most often to me as a kid. They are
Anything worthwhile is worth fighting for.
Life is not easy. Life is a struggle.
What do you want me to do? I dont have a ''''', do you want me to turn into a '''''''''? (insert any object into the blanks, it works)
all of which might seem a little downtrodden, but that is not to say what is given to us without effort should not be of value. It is taking those things for granted in a way, appreciated as essential, but nontheless we do it. And they are beautiful awe inspiring things. The sunshine, the air that we breathe, the rapture of knowing we are alive. It is perhaps the difference between passive and agressive, the difference between sitting back and moving. The primal aspect of sense and imperitive is innate in all of us. The best way, as I now see it, is blending together a bit of both approaches.
OutRadulous is a lazy bastard. Also one of the happiest people I know. I tend to be more industrious and certainly more ambitious than him, but often I am battling with poor emotional health. Who would you rather be? In a perfect world, I'd rather be neither, I'd rather take my blessings and mesh them with OutRadulous'. That isn't gonna happen. My point really is that you, FishMonger, seem to believe that ambition is an end. Something that is worth having. I believe it is a manifestation of your (and my) discontent. OutRadulous is easy to envy. I do this daily. But in the end, I am confident that I will reach more financial and professional success than he will. Who cares, he's happy as fuck and I'm not. It's easy to look down on his lowered standards for satisfaction, but I would argue HE is the successful one, because he actually attains that satisfaction, instead of being in a state of constantly aiming high and meeting failure. Perception is everything. Reality is merely your perception. Ambition is only a virtue to you because of your perception of it's struggles and rewards. There is no inherant property of ambition or industry that is admirable. He's an EightYearOld, but god, do you remember being an EightYearOld? It was awesome. -JaLong
I remember being an EightYearOld rather well. It sucked, and big time. Between fighting for my survival (I was shot at, and tossed down 4 flights of stairs, among other attempts by individuals and groups to remove me from this life), protecting my family and friends from various things (a few of which times lead directly into the previously mention happenings), dodging the police and other outsiders that thought they had a clue... it sucked.
Fourteen, now there was a good age. Just had a strong dose of teen angst. My only problems then were figuring out how to see my girlfriend, and occasionally having to sacrifice personal time to make a deadline crunch. A very splendid time with wondrous friends.