When nothing forgot whether it was one nothing or another, it became the notion of two opposite nothings. Each notion of nothing soon forgot where the other was. For each of the original two notions, the notion that the other nothing might be elsewhere gave rise to notion of another nothing. Now any one nothing could choose from either of two opposite counterparts, or, failing there, give rise to another (in the same manner that the original notions gave rise to new ones). This process continued for all notions, old and new, each always creating or adopting an opposite partner when it forgot its former partner. Soon it became clear that notions of nothing comprised something.

Inflated notions.

In a very short period of time(hey, where did that come from?), all the confusion gave rise to a truly vast number of notions. As notions grew more plentiful, great tangles of notions arose, tangles in which each notion had plenty of counterparts to choose from. Since notions are just that, there was no reason for a scale of measuring distances, at first. However, when the number of notions became great, it seemed that: a) notions were much more likely to interact with notions in the same tangle, and b) certain other tangles became more likely candidates for interaction than other tangles, for any given notion. As the number of notions and tangles became astronomical, 'distance' arose from these disparities in the likelihood of interactions between the various notions.

-OutRadulous

Time comes about because 'something' happened. :D

Time is merely the sequence, any sequence. When you have a sequence of happenings, you have time. When your nothing splits into 2, you have a happening ('FirstEvent'). Each subsequent happening adds to the sequence, and you have time. Congrats.

You NothingIntoEverything sounds like a few creation myths I've read about in ancient and not so ancient cultures. It is also mirrored commonly in the creation background of many works of fiction, game based and not. ---StarPilot

Well said.... a rhetorical question that was begging for such an accurate and concise response. -OutRadulous

notions-nothingness,somethingness (i was thinking about this stuff on the train ride after work yesterday, and though I'm ignorant to most publicized philosophical debates, sometimes i do go "hmmm...")

are you personifying these notions because you cannot separate them from your mind and human cause and effect scenarios? notion

does "nothing" and "something" or rather the notions of nothing and something exist any where out side of the human mind. and if so, how do they actually relate to our perception or awareness of them. it would seem that nothing can't exist, therefore there is no nothing. so is nothing the only thing that defidefinitelynot?

in response to starpilot: when we say something happened (or is happening for that matter) are we merely subjecting it to time. does an event belong in time, come from within time, or is it just placed in time via mental notes?

it seems that the notion of nothing is a paradox in that being a debatable entity, it defies true nothingness as we imagine it. that it is a notion becomes problematic. I'm asking not saying. i have no idea, really.

since I'm retarded i can't help but be confused by the second half of your thing following "inflated notions". i'I'mure you could clarify it in conversation. to me it reads like a cat chasing it's tail, though of course more articulate. actually, as you probably know by now, it takes all day for me to finally wake up and understand any kind of linear thought. you have provided enough food for thought. -RozNerd

Ah hah====

==

Well, first off, we have to presume a few notions... like there is something beyond ourselves for this conversation. I could be a brain in a jar being fed input to think I'm in this realm of existence, when in fact I am not. Since I believe I am a being, I will presume the same for you. :D

There is something in the nothing of space. It's called ZPE around here... it is a whole lot of energy in various forms going about whatever it is going about. So it truly isn't nothing. It is something. To get to nothing, you'd have to get in front of the first wave of energy from the BigBang, and then you have the possibility of being where there is nothing. Only with you there, it would no longer be nothing...

As for time... time is always just a sequence. You have a serious sequence generator in your chest... Your heart. There are other sequence generators in your physical structure. We have various forms of awareness of these sequences, and we tend to use those sequences as a measure for when things occur. But time is always a relative matter in the personal sense. How long ago was Christmas of 2002? Not very long for most people. How long away is Christmas 2003? As a child, Christmas was one of those events that most children, (I certainly one of those children) that think anything in the future is a long time away. As you grow older, your sense of time changes... and hence, it won't be long, to me at least, until Christmas of 2003 will roll around.

How long ago was it that Ford was president? Is that even in your personal time line, or is that just a sequence event you know of intellectually only?

Time is always a sequence. That's the definition of time. A sequence. We do translate what we learn intellectually into our own terms of understanding (our own mental model), but that doesn't change the original. Reagan was president while I was in high school. So yes, I subject Reagan's presidency with my own personal meanings and ties. However, that doesn't change the fact of when it occurred. When did the dinosaurs roam the earth? Before you or I lived. So they are not subjected to our own mental worlds. It's merely data... this occurred before me. ;) If something isn't really tied to your own existence on a personal level, I do not see why you'd 'subject' it to your reality any more then any other information that isn't of a personal matter to you. However, as we model all our information on some level in our own terms, you can indeed say we are 'personalizing and subjecting' it. But that doesn't change the sequence of events as they occurred. Even if you change their ordering in your own experience.

Is that thoroughly confusing enough? We do personalize what we know... that's how we are. Something without a real personal connection will not or shouldn't get deeply subjected though to your own mental universe. But the fact that we do so in our thinking does not change the reality of what happened, nor what order it happened; merely our personal understanding and personal recall of the sequence. ---StarPilot

WE would not confuse the nothing with empty space (ZPE) as indeed space is very much something. Space and energy are two manifestations of the same thing. The fabric of space are 2D (electro-magnetic) discrete state change propagations across time (3D). Objects receive a state change they select (as is possible without exclusion events) eating the past fabric of space time itself. Whatever it doesn't want (non-equilibrium state) it shits creating future space which manifests self. ItFromShit==== The shit not wanted in the first place (excluded events) manifests empty space. ItFromShit!

==

In the ecology of information which is defeating the nothing, information propagating itself, the memes of the universe, , is responsible for creation. Recycling used information (entropy), as our shit becomes Life again someday,defeats the nothing with synergistic processes that have survived the information war by creating wholes that are greater than the sum of their parts.

There seems to be no limit in the resourcefulness of the universe to create ItFromShit. The lost biomass of the prior epochs of life on earth are preserved in our oil fields. The Human is capable of utilizing this shit as fertilizer, food products, plastics, textiles, and pharmaceuticals. This rich resource can be utilized to create almost unlimited value. But we are appearently still too retarded to use it effectively. We burn most of it at a rate where it will all be gone very soon and we shall go the way of the dinosaurs. But a future greater intelligence may make effective use of our shit and populate the galaxy and beyond.

Minor note: There is actually no need to worry about oil... as there is a much more powerful source of combustable energy, whose supply is known to be at least a factor of a billion times that of all oil in the world every used or still known about. It's ice (a hydrocarbon and methane ice, very flamable, but ice all the same), and it is just a few inches under the sea floor, throughout the world. The oil companies have already figured out how to harvest all they want. The only draw back to using it is... it will release (literally) tons of methane into the atmosphere. But the oil industry has never been concerned with such minor matters.

And there seems to be very reasonable ways to capture that methane by product economically and keep it from adding to the greenhouse effect in the general atmosphere.

Petroleum makes good fertilizer? Since when?

Crude oil is very old compost, it includes all the building blocks of life, it is excellent fertilizer right out of the ground, but is processed into commertial fertilizers.

Methane is a good power souce, but it is a simple molecule that does not replace the chemical richness of oil. Methane is the fart of the Jurasic shit. Burning it is cool. Burning oil on the other hand is a crime against the future our planet. It is too valuable to burn. --JimScarver

http://www.climateark.org/articles/2000/4th/frmemayo.htm

Ever feel like a DeadManWalking ???? -OutRadulous